DATE: August 29, 1995
SUBJECT: 8/25/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS:
AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley*
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar
Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar*
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
IBM Jay Diepenbrock
INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier*
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
Derrick Duehren
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei,
John Sliney
Motorola Ron Werner
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao
NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz*
Quad Design Jon Powell
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer*, Sung Oh*
Zuken-Redac John Berrie
OTHER PARTICIPANTS:
ARPA Randy Harr
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadlab Ralf Bruning
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz
EIA Patti Rusher
High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni
Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Arthur Wong
North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang
Symmetry Martin Walker
Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin
Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra*
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu
(Independent) Bob Ward
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
9/15/95 (916) 356-9200 1-16347 127231
10/6/95 (303)-633-2197 1-308636 No pass code
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS, ANNOUNCEMENTS
Eldar Yazbashevz from NEC joined us as an interested user of IBIS models.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
No Treasurer's report was available. There is some off-line discussion
regarding whether additional money has been sent from Anacad and received
by EIA for Anacad to become a voting member.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
Minutes of 8/11/95 corrections: Dave Moxeley of ATT attended.
Intel "Chipsets" library has been updated. The Passcode number was
incorrect for the 8/25/95 meeting on the minutes, and we hope that
did not cause any problems. It was correct on the agenda.
PRESS UPDATES
None.
NEW MODELS
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Possible discussions are Models under NDA, the Roadmap project and
the ground plane analysis issue, all which have been discussed on the
reflector.
EIA IBIS RATIFICATION (VOTES)
The letter ballot closed as of August 22, 1995. There were no negative
ballots. A draft Version 2.1 revision was posted with the already
approved changes per the August 11, 1995 meeting. Most of the meeting
was devoted to the Version 2.1 comments and revision.
Will Hobbs of Intel supplied some grammatical and spelling corrections
based on a technical writer review:
Pg. 3, line 38: Change "super sets" to "supersets.
Pg. 5, line 28: Change "can NOT" to "CANNOT".
Pg. 23, line 17: Change "can not" to "cannot".
On the revised draft, Remove the redundant "in" in the BIRD29.2
inclusion.
Dave Moxley provided these spelling corrections:
Pg. 8, line 48: Change "forth" to "fourth".
Pg. 10, line 23: Change "forth" to "fourth".
The proposed response to Intel's editorial comments that were sent on
the reflector were approved by Membership vote.
AR - Bob Ross send the response to Intel and copy EIA.
Sung-Ki Min of Integrated Device Technology, Inc. submitted comments and
the response to IDT, Inc. was discussed. The main issue was how to
describe the fact that IBIS does take into account the package parameters
for ground and power pins without creating a cluttered figure. After much
discussion, this response was proposed:
"Recommendation for SP3527 (IBIS)
It is recommended that high frequency effects be modeled into IBIS.
- The Modeling of transmission line effect at the I/O.
- Lead inductances should be modeled in the power and the ground to
model L*(di/dt) effect at the output (Figure in page 18).
Thank you."
IDT, Inc.: Comment 1
Type of Comment: Editorial
Reference: None
Suggested Change:
It is recommended that high frequency effects be modeled into IBIS.
- The Modeling of transmission line effect at the I/O.
Response: No change will be made.
Reason:
Transmission line effects in packages are being considered and actively
discussed for the next future extension of IBIS. Buffer Issue Resolution
Document No. 28.2 (BIRD28.2) is the current proposal. Your participation
in this work is welcomed.
IDT, Inc.: Comment 2
Type of Comment: Editorial
Reference: Terminator model figure on page 18.
Suggested Change:
It is recommended that high frequency effects be modeled into IBIS.
- Lead inductances should be modeled in the power and the ground to
model L*(di/dt) effect at the output (Figure in page 18).
Response: On the figure the "[Package] Keyword Sub-parameters" will
be changed to "[Package] Keyword Sub-parameters *" and a note at the
bottom will be added: "* Note: More advanced package parameters are
available within this standard, including more detailed power and
ground net descriptions.
Reason:
You have a valid concern regarding the reference model and its relationship
to ground and power inductances. The IBIS format actually supports a variety
of package models of increasing detail. To describe them in detail in
a figure would detract from the main point showing the terminator model
elements. Often for terminator elements shown in the figure on page 18,
the ground and power package elements are not needed. The terminator
values are already dominant for the frequency range of interest. So the
picture remains valid. However, a note is added to convey that the
application and usage of IBIS models can be extended to a higher level
of detail based on simulator functionality and the analysis being
addressed. In general the [Pin Mapping] keyword is available to describe
the power and ground L*(di/dt) effects for a particular set of buffer
or terminator models.
The above response was approved by Membership vote.
AR - Will Hobbs send the response to Integrated Device Technology and
copy EIA.
Michael G. Wahl of the University of Siegen submitted some comments.
The response to University of Siegen was discussed. Will checked with
Jeanne Warner of EIA and verified that we had all of the documents that
EIA had received.
The proposed response to the University of Siegen comments was:
"General Comment:
* An Information Model in Express would make the introduction of the
Standard to the STEP activitiy easier.
* I have missed an extended example.
* Short Remarks on pages: 6, 7, 12"
University of Siegen: Comment 1
Type of Comment: Editorial
Reference: None
Suggested Change:
* An Information Model in Express would make the introduction of the
Standard to the STEP activitiy easier.
Response: No change will be made.
Reason: We will consider your suggestion for future IBIS activity.
University of Siegen: Comment 2
Type of Comment: Editorial
Reference: None
Suggested Change:
* I have missed an extended example.
Response: No change will be made.
Reason: IBIS modles are publically available to serve as examples in the
/pub/ibis/models directory on vhdl.org. An information package is attached.
University of Siegen: Comment 3
Type of Comment: Editorial
Reference: Pages 6, 7, 12
Suggested Change:
* Short Remarks on pages: 6, 7, 12
Response: No change will be made.
Reason: We did not receive the pages with remarks. We cannot consider these
remarks at this time.
The above response was approved by Membership vote.
AR - Will Hobbs send the response to Integrated Device Technology and
cop EIA.
AR - Will Hobbs submit copies of previous responses to EIA.
AR - Bob Ross roll the changes into a revised Version 2.1 Specification.
Send changes to the reflector by September 1, 1995. Send changes to EIA.
The Version 2.1 document was put to a vote with the grammar and spelling
changes and with the letter ballot changes above. It was approved by
Membership vote. Will Hobbs indicated that this is a major milestone.
The next step is to submit these comments and results to EIA and work
with them toward final ratification of EIA-656. Also, EIA will generate
a press release.
AR - Will Hobbs communicate with EIA on the next step to final ratification
of EIA-656 and a press release.
WEB UPDATE
Will Hobbs stated that he can submit IBIS information internally at
Intel similar to what Syed Huq has done at National. He recommends that
people in other companies do the same.
Syed Huq reported that the EIA home page is going through some changes
and the IBIS and EIA-656 access has not been set up yet. The search
utility is currently disabled. Syed has translated the IBIS material
into html, so the documents are ready. Syed will continue to work with EIA.
FAQ VOTE
Q6 and Q7 had been resubmitted to the reflector for consideration. Based
on responses questions were considered here.
Q6: Can IBIS model SSO (Simultaneous Switching Output) ?
Sung Oh raised the issue that gate modulation feedback effects can change
di/dt and qre not modeled. Arpad Muranyi argued that some of the
modulation effects can be obtained by looking at all of the tables
(min, typ, and max). Will Hobbs indicated that several IBIS formatted
models could be provided for SSO simulation for a sequence of 1 driver,
2 drivers, etc. Also, the [Pin Mapping] keyword gives some useful
information. Arpad indicated that decoupling on the die can be a
significant factor. The general consensus was that some level of SSO is
supported, but it is dangerous to imply SSO is completely covered.
AR - Syed Huq post a reworded answer for further reflector discussion.
Q7: Why do we need to sweep -Vcc to 2Vcc ?
There was discussion concerning the need and validity of the clamping
currents at the end of the range. The concensus was that extrapolated
values were sufficiently accurate and that high currents do not occur
in signal integrity applications in actual simulations. So the answer
was basically correct. The last two paragraphs were combined.
The committee voted to approve the response.
MODELS UNDER NDA
The comment on the reflector by Dileep Divekar on NDA models may be
resolved by a FAQ of the form: Are models freely available? The
response is that some models are available under NDA because the
part has not been released and also some models are generated for sale
as part of a model generation business. Will Hobbs will send Syed Huq
the reflector discussion.
AR - Will Hobbs send Syed Huq the reflector discussion regarding models
under NDA.
AR - Syed Huq formulate a question and answer for review and voting.
GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
Version 8 has been distributed. Arpad Muranyi has received Version 9
correcting a Banded_matrix bug. He is sending it to Will Hobbs for
distribution. This should be the final Beta version.
BIRD30 - PIN PROGRAMMABLE BUFFER STRENGTHS
There was no time for discussion, but Bob Ross indicated that maybe
there was a more consistent syntax which will eliminate the floating
"Default" and may allow some attributes.
NEXT MEETING:
It is set on Friday, September 15 1995.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com
Modeling Manager, Intel Corp.
2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
To become a voting member of the EIA IBIS Open Forum, send email to
ibis-info@vhdl.org for instructions.
If you want to join the e-mail reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), send e-mail to the
IBIS secretary at ibis-request@vhdl.org.
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Aug 29 18:07:22 1995
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