DATE: September 19, 1995
SUBJECT: 9/15/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS:
AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley*
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar*
Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar*
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
IBM Jay Diepenbrock
INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi,
Derrick Duehren
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei,
John Sliney
Motorola Ron Werner
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao
NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz*
Quad Design Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham*
Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer*, Sung Oh*
Zuken-Redac John Berrie
OTHER PARTICIPANTS:
ARPA Randy Harr
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadlab Ralf Bruning
CFI Ron Christopher*
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz
EIA Patti Rusher*
High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni
Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Arthur Wong
North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang
Symmetry Martin Walker
Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin
Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu
(Independent) Bob Ward
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
10/6/95 (303) 633-2197 1-308636 No pass code
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS
Ron Christopher of CFI and working as an independent consultant on a ten-
year roadmap for EIA standards introduced his work. He is working with
CFI, EDAC and Semitech. His long range concern is EDA standardization
of delay/verification and compatibility of related models including
IBIS. He is also concerned about the acceptance of standards by major
vendors. His documents and preliminary reports are on the Web at
http://www.cfi.org/roadmap/roadMap-eii-report.html.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher reported the treasury is $8725.54. IBM and VLSI are members,
as previously reported, and Tanner Research has also become a voting
member.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
Will submitted some spelling corrections to the 8/25/95 minutes which have
been made on the posted copy on vhdl.org. Also, Raj Mittra was incorrectly
reported as present at the last meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
C. Kumar reported that the 4th Topical Meeting on Electronic Performance
of Electronic Packaging (EPEP'95) is being held in Portland, Oregon on
October 2-4, 1995. More information can be obtained on a web site:
http://www.emclab.umr.edu/news9.html.
AR - Kumar post this on the reflector [Done].
Jon Powell still needs logos from participants. Only a few have been
received. Because of some vhdl.org computer difficulties, the message
he sent may not have gone out.
AR - Jon Powell send again the logo message [Done].
PRESS UPDATES
None.
NEW MODELS
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
VI table and slow input discussion based on reflector questions.
Ground bounce discussion based on reflector questions.
Roadmap questions Ron Christopher is raising related to delay.
EIA IBIS RATIFICATION (VOTES)
Patti Rusher reported that she has not received the documents from Will.
AR - Will Hobbs/Stephen Peters FAX all documents to Patti.
Patti requires the rolled up standard, copies of the official responses
and changes, and a cover letter. The package will be put together by
EIA Engineering to be presented at the next EIA Board Meeting (EDAC) for
review and ratification. This will then become EIA-656 and will also be
forwarded for ANSI standardization.
Will Hobbs will work on a generic press release timed at the official
transition. The press release will list the official EIA members.
Bob Ross will work with EIA (Cecilia Fleming) regarding ensuring all of
the preface changes are included (that were not part of IBIS Version 2.1).
FACE TO FACE MEETING
Will Hobbs indicated that we typically meet sometime around December
plus or minus a month. January is proposed as a meeting time. Intel is
willing to host the meeting unless another company wishes to volunteer.
A number of technical items will be discussed including monotonicity,
package models, clamping models, and other items. In the past, these
meetings have been very informative and have resulted in extensions to
IBIS.
WEB UPDATE
Syed Huq reported that the EIA home page is up in preliminary form with
a new search utility. IBIS can be accessed by searching on standards
proposal 3527 or on (case insensitive) ibis. This currently points to
the IBIS Home page area. Syed is going to put in the approved contents.
When IBIS becomes EIA-656, then the search will can be done by this
number. The web site is http://www.eia.org/eng.
The EDN article appears in Word For Windows format on vhdl.org under
/pub/ibis/documents. Syed will convert this and have it available on
the Web site.
Syed will post the FAQ's and will also send a copy to Bob Ross so they
can be posted on vhdl.org.
FAQ VOTE
Q6: Can IBIS model SSO (Simultaneous Switching Output) ?
This was posted on the reflector. The issue is that it is dangerous to
imply that SSO is completely covered because there can be complicated
interactions with external and internal chip and MCM parameters. However,
IBIS does have a number of parameters that are useful for SSO analysis.
To indicate that SSO can be handled by IBIS models to a limited extent,
the original answer
"IBIS as a model, has all the important parameters required to model an
SSO event. ...."
is changed to
"IBIS as a model, has the key parameters required to model an SSO event. ..."
This change was approved by committee vote, so FAQ Q6 can be posted.
The issue of ground bounce generated some positioning discussion related
to whether the primary mechanisms are external or internal to the chip.
Usually the internal details are not known, nor is there any real desire
to make them available. So the primary focus of ground bounce is at the
board level. The SSO model being regarded as a practical approximation,
but not an exact source of all information.
MODEL USAGE TRACKING
Syed Huq has been in contact with Michael Steer regarding setting up a model
usage tracking system for vhdl.org. The information would be provided only
to the providers of models for their models only. Michael Steer needs to
respond on the problems and progress of this activity.
AR - Michael Steer work with Syed and give status of model usage tracking
project.
GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
Version 9 has been distributed. A Test Matrix was distributed showing all
know problems have been fixed. IBISCHK2 is ready for official (non-Beta)
distribution.
AR - Will Hobbs work with Paul Munsey to remove the Beta designation.
The official Parser will be distributed to those who have purchased it.
AR - Bob Ross provide Jon Powell with several IBIS test files to validate
functionality of the Parser. The primary reason is to have test cases
against which ibishck2 executables for different machines can be tested.
AR - Jon Powell make executables for a number of machines and test them.
AR - Jon Powell send-to/work-with Bob Ross to post these executables on
vhdl.org. This should occur around the October 2 time frame based on
peoples schedules.
SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
Michael Steer and North Carolina State University team have posted a Beta
version on vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/s2ibis/s2ibis_v2.09. Bob Ross has
done a prelimary review, and it functions well. There are a few typos
in the documentation and the functionality still needs to be reviewed.
A major difference is that the "*" and "**" control syntax is replaced
by IBIS keywords and IBIS-like syntax.
Syed Huq indicated that National has modified the original s2ibis code to
be compatible with the internal Spice features.
COOKBOOK
Bob Ross reported no progress.
NON-MONOTONOCITY
Ron Christopher lead the discussion by indicating for a frame of reference
that handling non-monotonic drivers seems to be a barrier to a major
vendor (IBM) for adopting IBIS. The goal of IBIS was for a transfer of
useful information while preserving proprietary process information. IBIS
does allow the full characterization of non-monotonic VI data (with warning
messages), but the real problem is that the actual internal mechanisms are
guarded. Furthermore, performance information is not available. Both
are needed for simulator vendors to actually process the data properly.
Ron suggested that some independent vendor such as Zeelan could provide
measurement based data to give characterization information. That would
be a start, but not necessarily the total picture. Also, there may
be problems of vendors suppling such sensitive chips for measurement
for public distribution and the willingness of whoever does the measurements
to distribute the information. Ron will pursue this path.
The technical discussions regarding non-monotonic impact related to possible
delay artifacts. Jon Powell indicated that attempts to reverse engineer
the non-monotonic effects to provide a simulation model were to date
unsuccessful. The simulation data did not match the actual data. So the
internal mechanisms are probably needed.
Other companies may have similar technology. However, TI's reference to
GTL structures are probably not similar.
Most likely the non-monotonic architecture will be more fully understood
and could be implemented in IBIS. Sources of information may emerge
through patents and pending patents, papers and other vendors. Vendors
interested in using IBIS for these effects need to participate in the IBIS
activities to supply the essential information so that EDA vendors can
correctly architect the simulators. Ron, through his contacts could urge
vendors to become active in IBIS.
BIRD30 - PIN PROGRAMMABLE BUFFER STRENGTHS
Arpad Muranyi had submitted BIRD30 in August, and it has already generated
reflector discussion. Since Arpad was away on a prestigous internal technical
conference, Bob Ross summarized BIRD30 and the reflector discussion. BIRD30
introduces the new keyword [Model Selector] keyword. This allows a variety
of buffers (different voltages, different strengths, different slew rates,
different Model_types, even different technologies) to be assigned to a
pin or group of pins. One direction on the reflector was to extend this
capability to standardize "Classes" of capability. Then the selection method
could be based on function. The consensus was that this complication was not
warrented, would be difficult to standardize, and would still be subject to
individual simulator characteristics.
An opposite direction was to eliminate the "default" parameter and use
the first entered model as the default. This would be simplier to implement.
An intermediate position was to add a "discription" column associated with
each model name. This discription column would guarentee a text entry
(as opposed to relying on comment information) which could be viewed
by simulators. While not standardized, the information would be reasonably
descriptive. It could be used as the basis for interactive user selection
of models for a group of pins. The consensus was to go with this approach.
AR - Arpad Muranyi submit BIRD30.1 with the "default" parameter removed,
with selection of the first model as the default, and with the a description
column extension. This will be the basis for further discussion.
EGG6 - CMOS/TTL DIFFERENCES
Jon Powell introduced EGG6 discussion, also delayed from August. Basically
there are differences in the way TTL and CMOS transitions occur. Several
proposals have been sent regarding ways to detect TTL and CMOS type data.
However, there are probably counter examples where any such detection
scheme will fail. An alternative is to introduce into the [Model] keyword
another sub-parameter designating TTL, CMOS, etc for technology
differentiation. An automatic detections scheme may still be need if such
a sub-parameter is not required. This egg is subject to more discussion
related to how the transition methods of TTL and CMOS differ, possible
sub-parameter markers, and possible automatic detection methods.
BIRD27.1 - DEFAULT DIFFERENTIAL THRESHOLD
Still Deferred, but will be submitted by Bob Ross in the future.
BIRD28.2 PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT
Agreement that the "Maxwell" capacitance should be the reference for the
coupled matrix. Stephen Peters should submit BIRD28.3 with this change.
This may generate more discussion and or lead to a possible vote.
ROADMAP QUESTIONS
Ron Christopher has some technical issues with IBIS which he has in a
frame document on cfi/incoming/timezer. Since various participants
do not have ftp or framework capabilitity, it is better to send this
document in Postscript form on the reflector. Then the questions and
concerns can be considered.
AR - Will Hobbs get timezer, transform it, and send to the reflector as
a Postscript document.
NEXT MEETING:
It is set on Friday, October 6, 1995.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com
Modeling Manager, Intel Corp.
2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
To become a voting member of the EIA IBIS Open Forum, send email to
ibis-info@vhdl.org for instructions.
If you want to join the e-mail reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), send e-mail to the
IBIS secretary at ibis-request@vhdl.org.
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Sep 19 16:44:07 1995
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