DATE: November 12, 1996
SUBJECT: 11/08/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser,
Ray Ziesse*, Jeff Walden*
Applied Simulation Technology Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou
(formerly Contec)
Cadence Design C. Kumar*
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs, Arpad Muranyi*,
John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
[Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*, Chris Reid
Meta-Software (Sanjay Gangal)
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola Ahmed Omer
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, [Donald Snyder], Chune-Sin Yeh,
[Bill Aronson]
NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
Quad Design Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*
Quantic Laboratories (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia*
Veribest Ian Dodd*, David Wiens
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions,
Hrish Patel
Zuken-Redac (John Berrie)
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
3M Fran Hart, George Hare
Actel Steve Schlachter*
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Altera Vadim von Brzeski
Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Mark Leonard
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu
EIA Patti Rusher
IC Works Eric Chen
Mentor Graphics Kim Owen
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Ralph Perez
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao
Philips Semiconductor Mike Magdaluyo
Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman
S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong
Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere
Symmetry Andy Hughes
Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal
TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison
VTC, Inc. Bob Ward
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
12/06/96 (916) 356-9200 4-35933 6785885
1/10/97 (916) 356-9200 4-35934 5448699
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS
Scott Schlachter of Actel has started developing IBIS files for customers and
is getting IBIS information to ramp up on all aspects of IBIS. His initial
concern is correlating IBIS with measurements from silicon.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross indicated that the ledger remains at $9,285 with some deductions
pending.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
No changes, all AR's done with Ian Dodd still planning his s2ibis postings and
C. Kumar providing more test load discussions.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported references to IBIS in "Analysis Tools Target PC-Board
Design-Cycle Front End" in Electronic Design, October 24, 1996, pp. 40-50.
Also, "Tackling the Models Problem" in "Printed Circuit Design, November
1996, pp.14-17 and a VeriBest reference on pg. 36.
NEW MODELS
Arpad Muranyi plans to submit more Intel models.
Jon Powell sent out a reflector note that National has a revised gp612mea.ibs
file and Syed Huq sent out a note about a new dp83840a.ibs file on the
National "lan" Web page.
Bob Ross reported that the IDT shows a list of IBIS models under
http://www.idt.com/cross_pl/models/ibs.html
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Chris Rokusek on Cookbook
Ian Dodd on s2ibis
Bob Ross on reflector technical issues (covered throughout)
DESIGN SUPERCON97 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross asked and received consensus that National Semiconductor be formally
chosen as the host company at the Design SuperCon97 IBIS face-to-face meeting
on Monday, January 20, 1997 in Santa Clara, California.
Later, Syed Huq reported that he will make the local arrangements and will
send information on the IBIS reflector. It will be an all day session,
probably from 8 AM to 5 PM and either at a hotel or at National. Syed will
supply names of local hotels. Syed indicated that there will be technical
sessions including those on model development experiences. Soft copies will
be put on the vhdl.org directory, and Syed will take care of making copies
of presentations to distribute to participants. Bob asked that people who
would like to give presentations contact Syed with the topic and time needed.
Most presentations are expected to be in the 10 to 20 minute range to promote
discussion. Bob and Syed will organize the topics and create the meeting
agenda.
Stephen Peters asked if our goal is to approve Version 3.0 at that meeting.
Bob responded that that would be a good target, but Version 3.0 might get
delayed pending how the Electrical Interconnect Description proposal evolves.
AR - Syed send out information on the January IBIS Summit meeting.
DAC97 PLANNING
Bob Ross reported that Patti Rusher has asked for a commitment on whether
EIA organizations including the IBIS Open Forum will participate in the
booth at DAC97. The minimum level of participation costs $2500 and allows us
to show a poster. EIA will have a full booth, as last year. We could supply
literature. Bob recommended that we go ahead and commit to this since there
is great benefit in being supportive of all standards. Besides, the IBIS
Open Forum has received tremendous help from being associated with EIA
including administrative help, assistance and credibility to promote IBIS
through the national and international standardization processes.
Patti Rusher can arrange the IBIS meeting room once we set the date.
Stephen Peters questioned how much traffic existed at DAC. Bob did not know.
We can still have the "We Like IBIS" and "IBIS Spoken Here" signs at booths.
Also we can still investigate having our own booth at some remote location at
DAC. We will seek official approval at the next meeting.
IEC PROGRESS
Patti Rusher has indicated to Bob Ross that she believes IBIS is progressing
smoothly.
S2IBIS PLANS
Bob Ross reported that he had briefly reviewed a new Beta version of s2ibis2
(Version 0.99). Bob felt that it should be put on vhdl.org where others
could check the improvements. Reported problems have been addressed, and
Spectre support has been added. A number of crash problems from memory leaks
have been resolved. Format confusion associated with data that exceeds the
numerical scale factor limits has been solved by converting the data to
scientific notation. A make file for other platforms including Windows,
DOS, AIX, etc has been added, although Alan Glaser is unable to test this.
The version will be put on vhdl.org as soon as it is packaged.
Scott Schlacter brought up his questions concerning the extrapolation
algorithm. Bob mentioned that there was a reason for the algorithm, and he
will put a response on the IBIS reflector. Other technical discussion
occurred. Scott suggested a subdirectory for s2ibis fixes. After some
discussion, Bob felt that we will do that only if there is need. Currently,
however, the ibis-users@vhdl.org reflector should be used to report and
discuss bugs and get help. Syed Huq, in addition to testing, said he would
keep tabs of the bugs. We will send information including any suggested
fixes back to NCSU so they can maintain control any source code extensions.
Ian Dodd indicated that he is still exploring releasing the Veribest version
of Spice to IBIS with some bug fixes and support for NT. This could either
be put on vhdl.org or on the Veribest Web site. He still needs to send out
a list of bugs/fixes he has done to s2ibis2.
COOKBOOK for 2.1
Chris Rokusek raised the point that we have resolved a number of issues
as Cookbook additions, but there is no IBIS Version 2.1 Cookbook. One
example might be recommended test loads for [Rising Waveform] and [Falling
Waveform] keywords. While Version 2.1 supports any test load, the silicon
vendor needs guidance of what works best for simulation. Most likely,
resistive test loads at various voltages will give the best results. The
simulator vendors can supply to Chris what they consider the best test loads.
Chris believes that test loads at ground and Vcc were best, with a third
test load at the midpoint voltage for validation.
Stephen Peters plans an internal Intel Cookbook and can supply a sanitized
version to the IBIS Committee by the end of the year. Chris volunteered to
head the Cookbook effort and compile the results. Bob Ross will put this on
the agenda for regular reports.
Chris should work with Kellee Crisafulli, Bob, Stephen and anyone else.
BIRD38 - MAXIMUM VOLTAGE
Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD38, which the Specification Committee had
recommended be rejected since the contents were covered in BIRD39.
BIRD38 was disapproved by unanimous vote.
BIRD39 - SPECIFICATION ENHANCEMENT
Bob Ross introduced BIRD39 that adds the optional [Model Spec] keyword for
adding min and max thresholds, a set of hysteresis thresholds, static and
dynamic overshoot and pulse immunity. Dileep Divekar had raised an e-mail
question concerning the need for husteresis thresholds, and he was satisfied
with the response. Bob also expressed some personal concerns on whether
vendors would actually test for pulse immunity. However, there was value in
providing a format for this information.
Dave Moxley questioned that the overshoot words may be similar to RAIL, but
may have different meanings. Bob stated that in RAIL, the overshoot has a
different purpose, it is a design rule that may not necessary correlate with
any specification value. For example, no overshoot beyond a rail could be
specified to force a net to be terminated.
BIRD39 was approved by unanimous vote.
PACKAGE COMMITTEE REPORT
Stephen Peters started the discussion by noting that BIRD36.c was a working
proposal to get feedback. It covered only single line models and boards.
Coupled models are set aside until some single line issues are resolved,
but coupled models are intended to be included. The new name is electrical
interconnect descripion (.eid). It includes SIMM models and also for
connectors, Min_edge_time and capacitances. I includes the BIRD28.3 and
extensions of Fork and EndFork and Pins, Nodes (and reference designators)
and Paths.
Dileep Divekar raised some questions on the reflector. Hank Herrmann's
intended reflector response bounced (possibly due to an AMP mailer change).
Hank covered Dileep's comments point-by-point. A synopsis of items covered
in Hank's response are:
- The numerical limits are minimums for simulator design guidance.
- Pin ordering may be needed to identify input and output pins and possible
internal references - this needs to be examined.
- The suggestion of including G needs to be considered, but there are
frequency dependencies and effects that might be beyond the scope of the
analysis at this time. Also, we have yet to consider coupled matricies.
- The phrase "backslash" needs to be changed to "slash". Also we need to
review BIRD37.3 for this correction. [Note - This has been corrected in
BIRD37.3 and in wip Version 3.0 drafts.]
- Hank agreed that if the Len is not "0" to indicate a discrete component,
then both L and C entries are required to create a distributed model.
- NC as a method to terminate Paths internally needs to be reexamined to see
if it is necessary.
- The ref.designator syntax change from, for example, 17.U3 to U3.17 seems
reasonable based on standard practice.
Other discussions covered the capacitive global ground assumption appropriate
for single line models and whether traces could split on the board and join
at a different location.
Stephen again invited anyone to participate in the Package Committee meetings
where these issues are considered in depth. Stephen will publish the minutes
on the ibis@vhdl.org relector for information.
AR - Bob Ross send out Hank's response [Done].
AR - Stephen Peters set up the Package Committee meeting again for Friday,
8:30 AM to 10 AM.
BIRD35.2 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
Bob Ross introduced BIRD35.2 proposing a scheduling method for calling other
models for multi-staged output. A number of silicon vendors have devices
which physically use phased switching. There has been a lot of reflector
discussion on this subject. Bob feels that, as Greg Edlund had wrote, that
it would be nice to show a simulation with and without multi-staged switching.
Chris Rokusek was not aware of any possible objections to the proposed format.
C. Kumar raised some valid concerns that there really may be a very strong
dependency on which simulator is used. We did not have time to go into much
detail, and this discussion needs to continue on the reflector. Stephen
Peters suggested a "golden waveform" for the composite response and have it
as part of the [Model] from which the [Driver Schedule] keyword is inserted.
BIRD35.2 is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting.
PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
Chris Rokusek stated that he has implemented all of the proposed changes. He
did not know what percentage to select for accuracy and Bob Ross indicated
that 2 percent would be a good start. Also, Bob would like the executables
built with Static links for broader distribution.
Ian Dodd volunteered to help test the code on NT and Windows95 in response
to Chris' request for assistance.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, December 6, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
BIRD35.2 is scheduled for a vote.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Vacant
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
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or both. State your request.
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To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
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To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
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To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns.
ibischk-bug@vhdl.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
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Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
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"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Nov 12 16:03:04 1996
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