DATE: August 13, 1997
SUBJECT: 8/8/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Jeff Walden
Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram,
Fred Balistreri*
Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*
High Design Technology (Razvan Ene)
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matt Flora*
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
Interconnectix Bob Ross*
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel*
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
NCR Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani
VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell
VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
3M [Fran Hart]
Actel Scott Schlachter
Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Ansoft Eric Bogatin
Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas*, Doug Wallace*
EIA Patti Rusher*
EMC Fabrizio Zanella
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat
Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa
IBM Brad Herrman
Interface Technology Dan Waterloo
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
Symmetry Andy Hughes
TRW Ray Steele
Ultratest International Charles Im
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
September 5, 1997 (916) 356-9200 2-177650 2591118
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
The following new participants introduced themselves:
Fred Balistreri of Applied Simulation Technology was involved in the early
development of IBIS and expressed his company's continued interest in IBIS.
Raj Raghuram will be the representive calling in to replace long term
representative Dileep Divekar.
Matt Flora just joined Hyperlynx is and responsible for IBIS model developemnt
and the Visual IBIS Editor.
Frank Kern of Intel is with the XTG Group responsible for issuing new
generation IBIS (and Quad) models and also supports the hardware team
using IBIS models to convey information. He expressed concern regarding
no Version 3.0 Golden Parser to validate IBIS models.
Rob Wenzel of Motorola just joined to replace Ahmed Omer and will be suporting
internal Spice to IBIS conversions.
Dave Baranauskas (and later Doug Wallace) called from Dell Computer. Dave has
several years experience using IBIS. His interest is to leverage IBIS for
Signal Integrity and timing issues. He expressed a strong vested interest
in IBIS and in requiring IBIS models for semiconductor vendors. (Dave
verified Fran Hart formerly with 3M is with Dell.)
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher reported no membership change. She reported committee income
of $11,750 and an existing net of $5,272 (down from $9,433 from the last
minutes after some DAC expenses, reprint purchases, and other expenses. Bob
Ross questioned whether credit was given for the latest official member.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
No Corrections.
Stephen Peters reviewed the AR's. The major outstanding ones are for
examples for the Cookbook and BIRDs and will be carried forward.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross reported everyone is back from vacation and thanks Stephen Peters
and Syed Huq for helping out with the system administration tasks.
Congratulations to Stephen Peters for the new addition Spencer James Peters.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Howard Johnson's May 1997 Electronic Design article
which references IBIS is availble from his site under Straight Talk for Serious
Digital Designers, "Planning for Signal Integrity" under http://www.sigcon.com.
Syed Huq reported on some EIA/IBIS Web page changes including roster updates
and Version 3.0 access.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross notes that these Web sites have added models:
Cypress Semiconductor has added many more IBIS model for FCT octals and
16 bit logic, SRAMs, Programmable Logic, and Programmable Skew Clocks.
IDT, Motorola and Texas Instruments have added IBIS models.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross - East Coast IBIS Users Group Meeting
Patti Rusher - EIA Matters - Budget, Design Automation 98 Booth.
EAST COAST IBIS USERS GROUP
Bob Ross reported that Dr. Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates (NESA)
is investigating hosting an East Coast IBIS Users meeting in Massachusettes.
The tentative date will be Thursday, September 18, 1997 since Bob and others
will be at the PCB East conference on September 17. Bob suggested Ed send out
information on the IBIS reflectors to see who might be interested. The agenda
or topics still needs to be developed.
EIA IBIS MATTERS
Pattie Rusher indicated that we need to work with EIA concerning next years
budget to cover some anticipated Writer/Developer expenses. Pattie will not
be at the PCB East Conference, but will be in a Tokyo IEC meeting. The
EIA/IBIS committee plans to participate in the DAC98 Standards Booth. The
price/level of committment has not been determined since the possibility of
having actual IBIS demonstrations means more booth space alocation. This
would also have to be considered in the budgeting discussions.
INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
- 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - Pattie Rusher will check the status at a
meeting on August 21, 1997 prior to the Tokyo meeting.
- 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - Pattie will check the status
at the Tokyo meeting through contacting Jean LeBrun, the IEC subcommittee
chairman.
- EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs - Bob Ross reported no know progress,
but based on the presentations at the IBIS Summit, we can expect another
release in September along with a Package Committee release. Fred Balistreri
reports that simulation algorithms have been incorporated and some models
have been developed.
EDITING COMMITTEE
Stephen Peters reported no further progress on editing IBIS Version 3.0 for
clarity since Bob Ross and Stephen were out. Bob reviewed briefly that the
intent was to make IBIS Version 3.0 more readable by considering doing the
following:
Table of Contents and Section/Chapter headings
Consistency of Words as suggested by Ogawa-san of the EIAJ subcommittee
Tree diagram
BNF Syntax
Some Cookbook details added.
Clarifications (BIRD44, etc.)
Bob and Stephan still plan a first pass to be put in the work in progress
directory (wip).
After this first pass is completed, several issues will be addressed:
Format - Syed Huq feels that a format other than ASCII text such as Word,
HTML, Postscript will allow better graphics and presentation
Professional Support - Use a professional writer.
Editing Meeting - Set up a committee for an all day meeting.
The existing AR is still in effect and a new one is added for Stephen and Bob
to generate a first pass editorial review copy.
AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).
AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.
VERSION 3.1 PARSER
Four individuals responded to Stephen Peters' request for development posting.
Bob Ross suggested that Stephen, Bob and Syed Huq review the candidates and
issue a request for a bid regarding time/money based on the scope of the
project. Chris Rokusek emphasized that the development should start and be
based on the existing ibischk2+ source code with some data checking messages.
He also stated that the existing messages be retained because they are used
in some system.
In response to a question, Bob stated that there is no further ibis_chk (for
Version 1.1 or ibischk2+) development planned. Bug8 deferred one correction
that existed in all parsers until Version 3.0 development.
Syed Huq brought up the fact that some of the candidates may need to review
the source code to provide the bid. Bob Ross agreed and would plan to
provide the source code for the purposes of providing a bid only.
Mike Flora asked how to get the ibischk2+ source code and Bob responded that
companies (such as Hyperlynx) who have paid for the licence can get it
directly from Bob Ross or Chris Rokusek.
AR - Bob Ross, Stephen Peters, and Syed Huq consider the candidates and issue
a document for the selected candidates to provide a time/money bid for the
ibischk3 parser development project.
LEGAL IBIS VERSION 3.0 FILES
Chris Rokusek indicated that Jon Powell had concerns about the legality of
producing IBIS Version 3.0 file with having a parser to validate them and
without formal EIA ratification of IBIS Version 3.0. This generated a long
discussion and debate. Some issues related to whether the files should be
marked PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL in place of 3.0 for the [IBIS Ver]
keyword. Bob felt that the Version 3.0 format was official, so it is legal
to generate IBIS Version 3.0 files. However, the consensus of everyone was
to support adding some warning/disclaimer text to alert the user that the
files were not officially validated and could have syntax errors.
One commentor stated that even with the IBIS Version 2.1 parser, half of the
public IBIS files have bad syntax or data. Patti Rusher reviewed the
anticipated steps to reach standardization - Version 3.1 with editorial
review and parser completion (hopefully), then submit to EIA for a 2 month
letter ballot review. Based on a successful review and response to the
contents, EIA would then ratify the document as a new Standard.
Chris indicated that Jon will post a note on the subject to clarify his
position and initiate discussion.
COOKBOOK
Stephen Peters reported that he has not received any examples. The AR's are
still pending below. He would use the examples and augment them with comments.
Stephen also mentioned that Frank Kern plans to add a mostly tutorial section
explaining the structure (IV, VT data) and its rationale with respect to
using behavioral models.
Stephen raised the question whether the preliminary version of the Cookbook
should be made available. After some discussion, the concensus was that
it is a very useful document even at this early stage. We need clear
indication that this is preliminary and updates should be tracked by version
number. Two ARs were generated to for this to occur. All existing example
AR's are carried forward.
AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1
Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
Stephen Peters - Example 3
AR - D.C Sessions. Supply a paragraph or two explaining the best way to
modify a SPICE transistor model to get realistic power and ground clamp
information
AR - Bob Ross. Supply the text for the section "Diode Transient Time Data"
AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".
AR - Bob Ross submit an example of a Series MOSFET component.
AR - Stephen Peters with Bob Ross put a copy of the Cookbook in the
eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory after appropriate Version number and
preliminary disclaimers are added.
AR - Syed Huq provide a link to access the Cookbook document from the official
EIA/IBIS Web Site when the Cookbook is uploaded.
S2IBIS2 ISSUES (& NT)
Bob Ross reported that the NT versions of s2ibis have not yet been put on
the VeriBest Web site. So the AR is still active.
AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver1.3 and s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest
Web site.
BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
Bob Ross summarized the status of BIRD42.3. It was not approved at the June
IBIS ratification meeting because of some controversial aspects. There was no
further discussion. The AR is still considered open.
AR - D.C. Sessions and Kumar get together and provide an example showing
where the rising and falling waveform tables do not result in correct
results.
BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
Bob Ross proposed that BIRD44 be put in the Editorial Committee portion of the
Agenda since it is an editorial clarification. As discussed at the previous
meeting, the contents of BIRD44 will be taken into account as part of the
first editorial pass of Version 3.0. It will continue to remain open.
SWITCHING TERMINATORS
Arpad Muranyi has no further work in this area, but now has more time to work
on it.
In response to a question by Dave Baranauskas regarding whether this was an
extension of the IBIS scope, Arpad indicated that the funtionality was not for
a new type of terminator, but was for some internal I/O buffer electrical
characterization that is new. (Some overview discussions are on the FTP sight
under summits for the January 1997 IBIS Open Forum Summit meeting.)
MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION
The technical content of the meeting was concluded ahead of schedule. Bob
Ross opened the meeting up to discussions and questions on all subjects.
As indicated above, the presentations of several previous IBIS Summits where
the focus was primarily information presentations are available at the eda.org
site (same as vhdl.org): http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits. They are also
available using anonymous FTP at this location.
The BIRD (Buffer Issue Resolution Document) process was reviewed by Bob and
Arpad Muranyi as the method used by the committee to revise the standard.
A key aspect is that we will argue solid proposals based on the wording of
the proposed revision. BIRDs go through revisions based on the discussions.
They are available from the eda.org/pub/ibis/birds site and through other
links.
Dave Baranauksas asked for more details on the French IBIS Modeling and EMC
proposal and Bob responded that he was seeking details as well.
Dave also asked about the EIAJ III work since he had received the synopsys
document from Fred Balistreri. Bob and other discussed aspects of this
proposal including the fact the transistor devices were based on the source
table information. This is more accurate than the (arbitrary level) equation
data, but does not give some parameter sensitivites (such as temperature)
that are taken into account in the assumed equations.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, September 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
following the Labor day weekend.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-56
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@vhdl.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@vhdl.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@vhdl.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@vhdl.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@vhdl.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Wed Aug 13 09:27:06 1997
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