SUBJECT: 11/7/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Jeff Walden
Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
High Design Technology (Razvan Ene)
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
Will Hobbs, Frank Kern
Interconnectix Bob Ross*, Neven Orhanovic*
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
NCR Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani
Graham Bell
VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
3M [Fran Hart]
Actel Scott Schlachter
Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Ansoft Eric Bogatin
Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
EIA Patti Rusher*
EMC Fabrizio Zanella
Hewlett Packard, Boise Paul Gregory
Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat
Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa
IBM Brad Herrman
Interface Technology Dan Waterloo
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen*
S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
Symmetry Andy Hughes
Tandem Mark Simpson
TRW Ray Steele
Ultratest International Charles Im
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
12/5/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159556 6788873
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Todd Andersen of Philips Semiconductor has been developing IBIS models
for clock drivers, BiCMOS and other devices. Philips uses an internal
translation program adapted from NCSU s2ibis and a process for converting
directly from IBIS netlists using an internal product PSTAR. Todd intends
to put the IBIS models on the Philips web site. Philips would be willing
to send IBIS models to EDA vendors for validation.
Neven Orhanovic of Interconnectix joined late to participate in the technical
discussion of BIRD45, which he co-authored.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher said that there was no update. Patti recalls that the IBIS
account has $6,008 (although it has been previously reported as $5,272).
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Bob Ross changed Matt to Matthew Flora in one location. The AR's will be
talked about during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross reported that another IBIS East Coast Users Group meeting is
tentatively planned on Thursday, December 4, 1997, 3:00 pm at a site to be
determined. Bob mentioned some of the possible agenda items including:
what is working well, how to validate models, review of IBIS tools, and
what are elements needed for system designers (such a low cost simulator).
This meeting is a local meeting for face-to-face interaction.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq reported that the FAQ section has an updated response concerning
where to find forms for reporting bugs and where to send them regarding
ibischk, s2ibis, and s2iplt. Syed also reported changing the Interconnectix
link to a new page under the Mentor Graphics parent organization page.
Bob Ross reported that IBIS was mentioned in "New Simulation Tools Help PC
Boards Meet EMC Requirements", Electronic Design, October 13, 1997, pp. 93-98.
Bob also indicated that Dr. Howard Johnson's site now has the "IBIS" article
and several other articles that reference IBIS (including the one printed
in Printed Circuit Design on IBIS) under
http://www.sigcon.com/straight.htm
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported more IBIS models at Cypress Semiconductor.
Several other links also exist for Intel and TI IBIS models:
http://developer.intel.com/design/pro/devtools
http://cove.intel.com/template/design/tpvtool/arch.cfm?architecture=1
(Search)
http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/datatran/app_supp.htm
Raj Raghuram asked if any vendors were shipping IBIS Version 3.0 models.
Arpad Muranyi commented that he has included the [Model Selector] keyword
in some models within comments for Version 2.1 files. The user can upgrade
the model the EDA tool supports the keyword. After some additional
discussion, no one knew of Version 3.0 IBIS models being shipped yet. Some
tools currently support portions of Version 3.0.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross on publishing IBIS Specification in vendor documentation.
PUBLISHING IBIS SPECIFICATION
Bob Ross introduced this new item by indicating that there have been requests
over the years from several sources on getting permission to publish IBIS
Specifications in commercial documentation (or products). Bob indicated that
a general policy of granting that right for fee of $1000 to the company had
been discussed. However, it was not formalized or fully understood.
Bob proposed that the EIA IBIS Open Forum would grant a permission letter to
any organization that wants to publish an IBIS Specification for the fee of
$1000. This would apply for each major release of the IBIS document as a
one-time charge. The current major releases are IBIS Version 1.1, IBIS
Version 2.1 (also ANSI/EIA-656 and IEC 62014-1), and IBIS Version 3.0. Upon
payment of the fee, Patti Rusher would issue the EIA permission letter.
Prior to the vote, some topics were discussed. Bob noted that the Web Site
versions of IBIS contained the IBIS text, but the official specification for
IBIS Version 2.1 is distributed for a nominal fee by Global Engineering. It
contains the necessary header sections and proper nomenclature. The text
the various versions of IBIS including work under development is currently
available on the EIA IBIS Home page. The committee needs easy access for
the subsequent development. Patti noted that there is funding next year for
upgrading the EIA Web Site for password only access. So the IBIS material
could be moved there in the future. Syed Huq said that maybe only member
companies could access the Specifications. Bob stated that this could be
a future discussion, but we really needed wide-spread distribution to all
sources as a practical matter for standards development and for wide-spread
usage of IBIS. Patti indicated that the IBIS standard would need to be
stabilized before the access should be restricted.
Bob noted that one of the motivating factors is that many organizations want
the permission mechanism in place so there is no question regarding copyright
issues. The fee of $1000 is considered nominal for any size organization.
Because many documents are now embedded into the software and distributed
with the software product, the permission applies to any form of distribution
of the Standard in a product or document.
Stephen Peters asked if this applies to the Cookbook document as well, and
Bob answered no, just to the IBIS Standards. It does not apply to any other
document or free utility.
After some discussion this proposal was approved by unanimous vote.
INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher is still waiting for the
official approval of the unanimous vote from IEC. When approval is reached,
the IEC nomenclature will be added to the ANSI/EIA-656 document. Patti
will also issue a press release.
- EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Patti Rusher and Raj Raghuram
did not have any further status. Patti needs to review the final minutes
of the last IEC meeting to see if it is a work item with a number.
DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT
Syed Huq reported on plans for the EIA IBIS Summit Meeting on Monday, January
26, 1997. He has reserved a room at the Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa
Clara Convention Center. He needs final confirmation before sending out the
information. In the last years, the Summit has attracted about 40 people
for presentations and discussions. National Semiconductor will also be
providing the breakfasts and buffet lunch. The meeting will be from 8 am to
5 pm, with the actual sessions beginning around 9 am. As before, electronic
copies are requested of the presentations before the meeting so Syed can have
copies available at the session.
We did a polling of attendees at the meeting, and most said they planned to
attend. Arpad Muranyi commented that high frequency issues using IBIS
would be a good topic. Upon further reflection, he stated that he may have
the resources (e.g., Spice models and measurement equipment) to do research
and
provide the presention - if he has time.
Bob Ross reported that he has been working with the people for DesignCon98
which is scheduled Tuesday thru Thursday, January 27-29, 1998 at the Santa
Clara Convention Center. The three modeling related presentations are
scheduled on Tuesday, the day following the IBIS Summit meeting. In the
late afternoon at 4:30 pm there will be a panel session on "How Good Are The
Currently Available IBIS Models". So attendees should plan on at least both
Monday through Tuesday evening for IBIS and modeling related presentations and
discussions.
DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT
Bob Ross reported that we have reserved Thursday, February 26, 1998 of a
European IBIS Summit meeting in Paris, France. It is currently planned to
be all day at a room in the Concorde-Lafayette hotel, the day after the trade
show portion of the DATE98 conference. The DATE98 conference and exhibition
will be held at the adjacent Le Palais des Congress de Paris Porte Mailot.
The Mentor Graphics Paris field office is hosting the meeting, but other
companies are welcome to join in to reinforce that this is a vendor neutral
Summit. Smaller companies may also join in for some of the smaller expenses.
Bob will be sending out information for early planning, and preparation of
presentations. Bob indicated that even though he will do most the initial
organization, he is looking for a European participation and presentations
to solicit new ideas, experiences and issues. IBIS and EMC remains as a
potential discussion topic. He has already gotten indications of
participation from European IBIS users and suppliers.
The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and
ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available at:
http://www.date-conference.com
S2IBIS FOR NT
No report, the AR remains. From a question from Stephen Peters, Bob Ross
indicated that this is unrelated to the s2ibis3 activity that R. sanjeev
(Presi) is planning in India.
AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.
EDITING COMMITTEE
Bob Ross posted the first editorial pass of IBIS Version 3.0 as
/pub/ibis/wip/ver3_1a.ibs
It contains some language consistency or terminology elimination. Bob gave
some examples such as standardizing on the usage of "component" and "device",
and eliminating "part", changing "silicon vendors" to "semiconductor vendors",
using "pin name" instead of "pin number". In addition a table of contents
and the beginnings of a General Introduction section has been added to help
partition the sections in a clearer manner. Steven Peters and Bob had met
a while ago to discuss these changes, and they are finally been implemented
and posted according to one AR. Bob noted that he found on review several
minor errors, so he will provide occasional updates. The BNF AR remains.
AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).
BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
Bob Ross noted that we need to start looking at how to address BIRD44. Bob
plans to make this a discussion topic at the next meeting.
IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS
No report. The AR remains. Bob Ross noted that he and Chris Rokusek
discussed one of the Bugs, and it might not be in the area that Chris had
worked. So someone else may be more appropriate to address it.
AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2
version 2.115.
VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
Bob Ross met with the contractor, Atul Agarwal, of APT Software Avenues Pvt
Ltd, and Atul plans to start work now on reviewing the Specification and plans
to begin the implementation when he returns to India in December. Bob
communicated to Atul that we still do not have financial commitment in
place yet. However, he has solid commitments from five companies, and has
been tracking what appear to be at least five more purchase orders in process.
So he is confident that we will have the commitment needed for the contract.
Bob showed Atul the old BNF, the old test matrix, and the tree diagram to help
in the parser development project. The test matrix was originally done by
Stephen Peters and Bob. Bob indicated that it needs to be extended for
the Version 3.0 functions. This will probably happen concurrent with the
parser development. We also need IBIS Version 3.0 examples for testing,
similar to the examples needed in for the Cookbook project.
COOKBOOK
Stephen Peters indicated no progress due to other projects.
All the ARs are carried forward.
AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
Stephen Peters - Example 3
AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".
BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
No discussion.
BIRD45 DYNAMIC CLAMPS
Bob Ross introduced BIRD45 in response to the switching terminator agenda
item. The basic concept is that two additional clamp tables are introduced
with rules consistent with the existing [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] tables.
The new clamps are are [Dynamic GND Clamp] and [Dynamic POWER Clamp]. Bob
indicated that he felt this was easier that to try to create extensions
to the existing keywords.
For the purposes of discussion, Bob talked only about the [Dynamic GND Clamp].
The [Dynamic POWER Clamp] would be similar. The [Dynamic GND Clamp] would
be referenced to the [GND Clamp Reference] voltage. It contains the typ,
min, max tables. As proposed it has the same range and rules (100 point
limit) as [GND Clamp]. However, this may change. The proposal documents
six subparameters to do the shifting of the clamp relative to the [Gnd Clamp
Reference]. They include the offset voltage, V_offset, and the T_delay,
T_on, T_width, and T_off to control the delay, ramp time on, duration, and
ramp time off of a complete cycle. The complete pulse would be triggered
by a falling edge threshold value V_trigger and would in practice occur only
during the falling response to dynamically clamp undershoot. This
specification applies for all three tables. Another key aspect includes the
fact that any diode kickback effects (related to the TT parameter) are not
modeled. One open issue is that the internal structure contains an FET tied
to another (undocumented) rail which could be souring of sinking some
dynamic currents. This rail might need to be identified in some manner in
a proposal revision to relate this to any power and ground bounce analysis.
With this introduction some discussion points were raised. Arpad Muranyi
commented that this structure and more advanced variations were being built
and distributed to customers. Bob confirmed that there had been customer
requests to support this new technology.
Arpad questioned the V_trigger for the [Dynamic Power Clamp] would be
referenced in a parallel manner to the [Power Clamp Reference]. This was
inconsistent since both Vinl and Vinh are reference to the same rail. He
also indicated that the triggering mechanism could be more complicated and
also that some devices may start at the on (shifted state) even without a
trigger. One proposal was to allow negative delay so that the clamp is
always on. More work is needed to deal with the variations of switching
initiation methods that have been implemented.
Arpad would have preferred a waveform description of the T_on and T_off
shape. Bob thought the simpler approach should be adequate since there was
no way to get this information directly. Arpad tentatively agreed for this
proposal since it could be added later if it is really needed. Arpad also
indicated that there were significant variations in the pulse shape and offset
for typ, min, and max conditions. So Bob and Neven Orhanovic indicated that
the proposal would have to be restructured to support typ, min, and max
subparameters.
Arpad wanted to review the proposal in terms of some functionality that may
be coming in the near future. In particular he wanted to know if the
method could be generalized for [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables. Dave Moxley
asked if the [Driver Selection] keyword in Version 3.0 could be applied to
provide this extra functionality. [Driver Selection] references any number
of [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables (with possible waveform control) and
some of the tables could be adapted though differences in values to produce
the desired effect. Arpad did not know and thought it was worth
investigating.
Neven indicated that he had a private question regarding BIRD45 from C. Kumar,
but there was no reflector discussion on the subject.
Arpad stated that he may want to meet directly with Bob and Neven next Friday
(since he could plan to be in the area anyway), and work out more details.
(This has been arranged off-line.)
MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION
Bob Ross commented briefly on the reflector discussions on low cost simulators
and IBIS to Spice conversion. He indicated that several vendors do IBIS to
Spice conversion in commercial products, and also some companies have in-house
utilities for this.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, December 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-56
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Wed Nov 12 10:13:47 1997
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