DATE: October 2, 1997
SUBJECT: 9/26/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Jeff Walden
Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
Fred Balistreri*
Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar*, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*
High Design Technology (Razvan Ene)
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora*
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
Interconnectix Bob Ross*
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
NCR Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Peivand Tehrani
Graham Bell*
VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
3M [Fran Hart]
Actel Scott Schlachter
Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Ansoft Eric Bogatin
Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
EIA Patti Rusher
EMC Fabrizio Zanella
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat
Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa
IBM Brad Herrman
Interface Technology Dan Waterloo
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
Symmetry Andy Hughes
TRW Ray Steele
Ultratest International Charles Im
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
10/17/97 (916) 356-9200 4-120224 5819441
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants. Patti Rusher and Chris Rokusek could not attend this
meeting.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross did not have any updates. The last treasurer's report is $5,272.
We are still following up on one member's payment.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Bob Ross reported that Dave Wiens name was corrected in several places from
Wien. The next meeting Date was corrected in the Passcode section.
Stephen Peters indicated that a number of AR's had been fulfilled and this
will be discussed during the meeting. Other AR's will be carried forward.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross has been investigating slow eda.org IBIS reflector responses. At
this time he does not know if this is something associated with eda.org and
the network in general or is a problem with his site.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq updated us on progress. The next Web page update will contain a
revised link to s2ibis2 on eda.org since the NCSU link did not have the fixed
code. He has added to the FAQ information regarding filing bug reports for
ibischk. However, because Bob Ross moved the location under eda.org to
/pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk, the answer needs to be revised. Syed also added
H.A.S. Electric to the roster and changed the membership status of some
other entries.
Syed is still pursuing adding the logo of AMP to the Poster Page. [Done].
Syed will add a link to the interim updated IBIS Cookbook under development
for downloading. It is located as:
ftp://ftp.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/ckbkwfw3.doc
Bob reported that he received permission to post his paper "Practical Issues
with IBIS Models" given at the PCB Design Conference East in September 1997,
and it is available for downloading at:
ftp://ftp.eda.org/pub/ibis/docs/pcbeas97.doc
Syed will convert it to html format for the EIA/IBIS Web site linking. Syed
has received permission and will also provide a link to his open tutorial
presentation "Understanding and Using IBIS Models for Signal Integrity
Analysis" at the Electronic System Design Conference (HESDC '97) in October
1997.
Bob added after the meeting that "SPICE and IBIS" were discussed in a
Commentary by Charles Small in Computer Design, September, 1997, pg. 44,
titled "Taking the Drudgery out of Component Selection".
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Arpad Muranyi reported that there are some updates to some Intel IBIS models
available under NDA. Raj Raghuram questioned why models needed to be under
NDA, contrary to the non-proprietary nature of the IBIS format. Stephen
Peters defended the NDA policy for devices that have not been officially
released. However, Arpad indicated that these models were for already
released devices. So this is an internal Intel policy.
Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora discovered that Atmel has a site for IBIS
models at:
http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod173.htm
Bob reported that the National GTL models are now at Fairchild Semiconductor
at:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/Ibis/Gtl/index.html
The National Clock Generation and Support Models are also at Fairchild at:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/Ibis/Cgs/index.html
Bob also reported more IDT models and that Motorola has removed an empty
models directory for FSRAM.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.
INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
- 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reports that ANSI/EIA-656 has been
approved as an international standard at the Tokyo meeting on September 16-
18, 1997 according to Patti Rusher. Its number is IEC 62014-1. There was
an objection based on the existence of IBIS Version 3.0, but that objection
was withdrawn after it was revealed that Version 3.1 is planned for the
formal standardization processes. IBIS has passed these stages: Committee
Draft for Comment (CDC) and Committee Draft for Vote (CDV). Once the voting
report is officially approved at the IEC headquarters in Geneva, IEC 62014-1
will be official. Patti will then issue a press release.
- 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - Bob reports that no document
exists backing this proposal. It looks like this proposal is being
withdrawn. An investigation committee on EMI and EMC is being set up in
IEC.
- EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - The EIAJ subcommittee gave its
presentation and showed Version 0.0. (This is the same document presented
at the IBIS subgroup meeting in March 1997 in Santa Clara.) The proposal
has been accepted as a new work item under IEC TC93. This along with other
related activities above have been moved from WG3 to WG6. Patti recommends
that there be coordination with the Compact Modeling Council (for Spice
BSIM3 Version 3.1 standardization) and IBIS.
Bob also discussed some of the Compact Modeling Council activities and its
structure under EIA.
EAST COAST IBIS USERS GROUP REPORT (ALSO PCBEAST)
Bob Ross reported that a very successful initial IBIS East Users Group
meeting hosted by Dr. Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates (NESA)
was held in Foxboro, Massachusetts on Thursday, September 18, 1997. About
42 people attended including several West coast people. The discussion
concerned general topics related to IBIS models, accuracy, applicability,
and availability. Ed plans to continue having monthly user group meetings.
Participants in the meeting who were online today included Jeff Chu, Arpad
Muranyi, Graham Bell, and Bob Ross. All gave positive comments. Arpad asked if
presentations would be published. Bob thought probably not. They involved
updated information from Bob's IBIS Summit presentation (which can be posted
separately) and a general presentation by Gary Husted of Intel on Intel's
handling of IBIS models.
S2IBIS FOR NT
Bob Ross reports Dave Wiens has posted s2ibis_ver1.3 on the VeriBest Web
site. s2ibis_ver2.1 is still under development so that part of the AR
remains.
AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.
EDITING COMMITTEE
Stephen Peters reported no further work. The existing AR's are still in
effect. Bob plans to comply with them within weeks since he now has some
time.
Stephen reported that Bob posted an unofficial tree diagram for IBIS Version
3.0 in eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip/tree3_0.txt. This was and extension of
Ogawa-san's earlier work and is provided for information.
AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).
AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.
BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
Bob Ross indicated that the processing of BIRD44 will be deferred until we
have a revised Version 3.0 draft to work with. Jeff Chu asked for a
clarification of min and max, as it related to this issue. A discussion
followed, pointing to information in the Notes on Data Derivation Section
at the end of the IBIS document.
VERSION 2.1 PARSER (& S2IBIS) BUG REPORTING
Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora generated an NT version of ibischk2+
which also works under Windows95. It is stored on eda.org as
/pub/ibis/ibschk2+/dos32/ibischk2.exe. The dos32 directory is used for
32 bit DOS. The utility does not work with 16 bit DOS systems. There already
exists an ibischk2.exe under the ibischk2 subdirectory for all DOS systems.
The AR regarding an additional FAQ has been done (although it now needs
revision as previously discussed because the ibischk information has been
moved to a newly created subdirectory /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk).
Stephen Peters questioned Bob about the AR concerning s2ibis bugs. That
AR has also been completed. Under eda.org/pub/ibis/bugs, there exists
three new subdirectories (along with the ibischk subdirectory) of
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt.
Bug report forms exist in each of these subdirectories (the .txt document).
Sent all bug reports to ibischk-bug@eda.org. A separate e-mail address for
the Spice related bugs is not planned.
(Note, this process is also documented at the end of these Minutes.)
VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
Bob Ross reported that a committee reviewed the bids and options and selected
a contractor. The contractor, based in India, has an excellent track record
working with several IBIS member companies on IBIS and modeling projects. The
committee also proposed a funding method (thanks to the suggestion by Chris
Rokusek) that purchase orders be issued for the IBISCHK3 Source Code and
License not to exceed $2,500. This will allow sharing the development costs
among several companies. Once the bid price is reached through purchase order
commitments, the contractor can start. The actual invoice will then be the
total cost divided by the number of companies participating. Bob estimates
that the actual invoice may be about $1,500 per company.
The IBIS Open Forum agreed to proceed with this plan. Bob will sent out the
information for generating the purchase orders. Bob polled the members and
got indications of solid commitments from seven companies. Bob also knows
of likely commitments from three more. The IBIS forum will still be
seeking others commit to this joint development project to drive down the
cost for each company. Bob estimates the invoices will be issued around
December, 1997. Once the invoices are issued, the ibischk3 parser price will
be established as that price for future purchases (to be fair to the original
group).
AR - Bob Ross send out on the IBIS reflector information for generating
purchase order. [Done]
Bob mentioned that per a reflector e-mail from Kellee Chrisafulli, he has
created a directory on eda.org under /pub/ibis/samples for files to be
used for testing. There are subdirectories for ver1.1, ver2.1 and ver3.0
samples. Bob currently has the cbt.ibs for a 74CBT3383 series switch device
under ver3.0.
Also the test matrix for Version 3.0 tests needs to be extended from the
older Version 2.1 test matrix. With an external contractor doing the
ibischk3 development, we can focus on the testing and validation portion
of the project.
COOKBOOK
As previously mentioned Stephen Peters has supplied the interim ckbkwfw3.doc
posted in eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip. It will be updated regularly. Bob
Ross commented that the last section still contains an e-mail access method
that needs to be deleted. Stephen welcomes review and comments.
The previous ARs are carried forward. Syed Huq has completed the link to
the Cookbook document from the EIA/IBIS Web page, and it should be in place
at the next Web page update. The other ARs carried forward are as follows:
AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
Stephen Peters - Example 3
AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".
VERSION3.0 PRIORITIES DISCUSSION
Per the discussion of last meeting, Bob Ross opened the meeting to discussion
of semiconductor vendor priorities concerning Version 3.0 features. Frank
Kern and Stephen Peters added some priorities to the previous discussion to
prioritize from a list of general features. (Some other members had to leave
the meeting.) The list below shows the highest priority features:
[Model Selector]
[Driver Schedule]
Electrical Board Description
Package Model Extensions (for lines)
Features lower on the priority list included:
Diode kickback ([TTgnd], [TTpower]
Series Elements
Series Switches
[Model Spec] and [Component] test point subparameters
Frank also reinforced the need for some Verion 2.1 features missing in some
simulators including the independent voltage reference selections.
NEW IBISCHK BUGS
Bob Ross opened the subject of recently reported bugs. Matthew Flora had just
submitted bugs against the existing ibischk2 and ibischk2+ parsers. The
purpose was to decide the severity, priority and further action. The general
action will be to provide a version 2.115 upgrade of ibischk2+. That will
provide a better baseline to begin the ibischk3 development project. Matthew
was able to isolate the source and cause of most of the bugs and is available
to do the upgrade. Most of the fixes are minor.
Bob and Matthew review the bugs with this format: (Severity, Priority, Action,
Notes). When a file has [IBIS Ver] 1.1, the ibischk2+ parser uses the
original ibis_chk code developed for Version 1.1 files. So when the note
refers to Version 1.1 files, it means that the bug was introduced during the
ibischk2 development project.
BUG9 Crash if Keyword Associated with [Model] Comes First
(Severe, High, Fix, Does not crash for Version 1.1 files)
BUG10 Crash if Parser Encounters Empty V/I Table
(Severe, High, Fix, Does not crash for Version 1.1 files)
BUG11 Parser Continues after [End] Keyword
(Moderate, Medium, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
BUG12 Lines Greater than 1024 Characters Cause Wrong Line Numbers
(Annoying, Low, Fix, Cause identified)
BUG13 Parser Crashes if Error in Line Longer than 256 Characters
(Annoying, Low, Fix, Cause identified)
BUG14 Long Illegal Keyword Prints Meaningless Message
(Annoying, Low, Fix - A Version 1.1 problem that is not
a problem with Version 2.1 files)
BUG15 "Program Bug" for Version 1.1 Files with more than 512 Pins
(Moderate, Medium, Fix, an old Version 1.1 defect that
does not exist with Version 2.1 files)
BUG16 [Package] Argument Does Not Give Error
(Moderate, Medium, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
BUG17 Incomplete [Pin] L_pin, C_pin, R_pin Error Message
(Annoying, Low, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
BUG18 Other Order R_pin, L_pin, C_pin Columns Not Correctly Read
(Moderate, Medium, Chris Rokusek Fix? - This is related to
some incorrect warnings in ibischk2+ when the columns are
legally interchanged.)
In addition, the ibischk2+ version number will be incremented to 2.115. Also,
Bob and Matthew will deal off-line on putting in an error report switch as
discussed at the last meeting. Bob feels this is of lower priority than
getting the code itself fixed.
BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
Bob Ross mentioned D.C. Sessions wrote a comment on BIRD42.3. However, the
general discussion was deferred due to lack of time.
SWITCHING TERMINATORS
No Report.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, October 17, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-56
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Thu Oct 2 15:19:12 1997
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