DATE: October 20, 1997
SUBJECT: 10/17/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Jeff Walden
Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
High Design Technology (Razvan Ene)
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora*
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
Interconnectix Bob Ross*
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
NCR Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Peivand Tehrani
Graham Bell
VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
3M [Fran Hart]
Actel Scott Schlachter
Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Ansoft Eric Bogatin
Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
EIA Patti Rusher
EMC Fabrizio Zanella
Hewlett Packard, Boise Paul Gregory*
Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat
Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa
IBM Brad Herrman
Interface Technology Dan Waterloo*
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
Symmetry Andy Hughes
Tandem Mark Simpson*
TRW Ray Steele
Ultratest International Charles Im
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
11/7/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159555 4855377
12/05/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159556 6788873
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Mark Simpson from Tandem is interested in IBIS to off load nets that do not
need detailed HSPICE analysis.
Paul Gregory of Hewlett Packard, Boise is interested in IBIS modeling
techniques for high frequency design.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Hewlett Packard is being moved back to full membership status since the issue
about the invoices is being resolved. Bob Ross does not know of any expenses
since the last report of $5,272.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
No corrections were reported. The AR's will be dealt with during the meeting.
Arpad Muranyi reported that the Minutes are coming in as an attachment - a
minor inconvenience.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
It looks like the slow IBIS reflector response that Bob Ross discussed at the
last meeting turned out to be a local issue only. This has been fixed.
Bob will move the mail system over to Majordomo since all of the major groups
on eda.org are using this system.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq reported several changes to the EIA/IBIS Web Site. The Home page
format is modular. Bob Ross' article "Practical Issues with IBIS Models"
presented at the PCB Design Conference East in September 1997 is now in HTML
format under the Articles section. A link to the new IBIS Cookbook has
been added for downloading only in the Tools section. The document is located
on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip since it is expected to be updated at various
times. A missing dV/dt definition in the Cookbook Version 1.1 has been
added per a comment by Matt Flora. Some Roster changes and updates have been
made for several companies. Syed plans to provide an FAQ on reporting bugs.
Bob reported that Eric Blomberg has written "IBIS "Models" Come of Age"
in Printed Circuit Design, October 1997, pp. 19-21.
Bob also reported a brief mention of IBIS in "New Paradigms Ensure High-
Performance PCBs" in the October issue of Computer Design, pp. 60-69.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Syed Huq reported that he had sent out a message regarding a new SuperI/O
model available from the National Semiconductor IBIS Site.
Bob Ross reported that International Microcircuits, Inc. has an FTP site with
password protected IBIS models at:
ftp://ftp.best.com/pub.i/imiweb8/ibis
A marketing contact is listed in the contacts.txt file to obtain the passwords
to unlock the files. Also one can go to the http://www.imicorp.com location
to get more information about any part and how to contact the company.
Bob Ross reported that Quicklogic has an IBIS library under development. There
was a copyright confusion mistake which has been cleared up according to
Matthew Flora. The link is:
http://www.quicklogic.com/techinfo/techinfo.htm
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Arpad Muranyi on some IBIS models with stair step tables.
INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - As previously reported, Bob Ross stated
that the vote report needs to be approved before Patti Rusher will issue
the press release.
- 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - This work item has been dropped
as previously reported.
- EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob understands that this is now
a formal work item under IEC. He does not have its number.
DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT
Syed Huq volunteered that National would be willing to host the annual IBIS
Summit meeting held with DesignCon98 (formerly Design SuperCon) in Santa
Clara, California. If others Bay Area companies want to volunteer as Host,
they are welcome to submit their request. Bob Ross stated that unless we
hear of any requests we will assume that National will serve as host. Syed
plans to send out information regarding the meeting. Like last year, we plan
some technical presentations and discussions related to IBIS issues and IBIS
usage. The meeting is planned on Monday, January 26, 1998, the day before
DesignCon98 begins.
Arpad Muranyi commented that high-frequency modeling might be an interesting
topic based on the discussion raised by Paul Gregory. Arpad is concurrently
trying to resolve delay differences with Spice transmission line models.
Bob indicated that there are three IBIS related presentations submitted to
DesignCon98 which extends from Tuesday through Thursday, January 27-29, 1997.
Also, there may be a modeling panel session. Bob is suggesting that these
activities occur on Tuesday, the day after the IBIS Summit.
DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT
Bob had received an initial suggestion from High Design Technology of Italy
regarding an IBIS meeting along with DATE98 Conference in February, 1998 in
Paris. After some followup with several individuals and after sending out
an inquiry on the IBIS reflectors, there does seem to be interest in such
a meeting. Bob has followed up with the French Mentor Graphics field office
regarding logistics of cost and scheduling of such a meeting.
Bob indicated that he would welcome other European companies or European
field offices to join in hosting the meeting.
Based on the response, there appears initial interest from HDT, Alcatel,
Siemens, Thomson, and HP France. Also several U.S. IBIS members expressed
interest in attending. Several people plan to do presentations, and others
suggested a variety of interesting topics to be sent out later.
Several people did not want a Sunday meeting. So the only dates now being
investigated are Thursday, February 26, 1998 and possibly Monday, February 23,
1998 at hotels at or nearby the DATE98 conference.
The sense of the committee was to proceed. Everyone thought it was a good
especially since IBIS now is an IEC standard. Bob indicated that we need
to firm up commitments by the end of October. He will work with several
IBIS officers to help make some of the decisions.
(Added later: the DATE Conference is the continuation of EuroDAC (with
EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available
at http://www.date-conference.com).
S2IBIS FOR NT
Bob Ross reported that s2ibis_v1.3 for NT has been posted on the Veribest Web
site. s2ibis2_v2.1 is still under development so that part of the AR remains.
Arpad Muranyi had raised as a new issue the concern that some IBIS models
have stair step tables. Bob responded that this was a result of a known
problem with s2ibis2_v2.1 that does not have the s2ibis2_fix code. Without
the fix, the table resolution can be as low as two digits in a manner that can
cause up to a 10% discontinuity. The EIA/IBIS Home page now points to a
directory where s2ibis2_fix exists. The VeriBest conversion should have the
fix code included.
AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.
S2IBIS3 PROJECT
Bob Ross reported that R. Sanjeev (who also goes by Presi) is planning to work
on s2ibis3 after looking into some bug fixes for s2ibis2. He is a Masters
degree student at the Indian Institute of Technology, Madras India. He has
done IBIS model development while working at Cadence using s2ibis.
EDITING COMMITTEE
Bob Ross reported that he has made the editing pass to simplify and reduce the
variations on the terms used in IBIS Version 3.0. He still has not broken it
into manageable sections. When this is done, this will be put into the work in
progress directory. The AR is still in effect.
Stephen Peters asked and Bob responded that the BNF AR still needs to be done.
AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).
AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.
BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
No discussion.
IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS
Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora plans to implement the bug fixes reported
at the last meeting as part of an ibischk2+ version 2.115. This correction
will serve as a new base line for ibischk3 development.
AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2
version 2.115.
VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
After last meeting, Bob Ross sent out the request for purchase orders to
support the ibischk3 parser development. So far, has either copies of
purchase orders of commitments to generate purchase orders from:
Applied Simulation Technology
Incases
Interconnectix
Hyperlynx
At the meeting, Frank Kern indicated that the Intel purchase order was being
signed off. Syed Huq indicated that National Semiconductor's purchase order
should be expected next week.
Bob indicated that the EIA IBIS Open Forum will own the source code. The
license owner will have the right to use the source code or to modify it to
generate utilities and products for sale. The license is for the entire
corporation, consistent with the membership rules of EIA - one vote per
entire company. The source code itself is not to be redistributed. Several
individuals raised questions on these points, and Bob plans to work with
Ken Willis of Cadence to craft the appropriate wording. This is needed for
Cadence to issue a purchase order.
Bob indicated that based on some private e-mail, several other companies were
moving forward on issuing purchase orders.
COOKBOOK
Stephen Peters indicated that there is no further progress. Frank Kern still
may do an introductory section, but is currently involved in company projects.
All the ARs are carried forward.
AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
Stephen Peters - Example 3
AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".
BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
Bob Ross noted that there was reflector discussion on issues related to
BIRD42.3. Arpad Muranyi asked how the discussion related to ground and
power bounce. Bob Ross felt that from one point of view, BIRD42.3 provided
extra information for giving more accurate answers for the buffer only.
Stephen Peters thought that the thrust of BIRD42.3 was to describe a
3-terminal device. From another point of view, it could be used for a more
accurate analysis. In conjunction with the [Pin Mapping] keyword, the
buffer details for bounce can be described with greater first-order accuracy.
Bob also noted that there are other signals such as internal clock networks
that add to the internal bounce effect through internal feedback. These can
be as significant as the bounce contributed by the buffers themselves. These
effects could be added though another method.
Bob commented that one of the threads in the BIRD42.3 discussion related to
DC Sessions example itself. The example implied a need for using two
waveforms to describe the independent action of the top and bottom transistors.
Bob modeled it in Spice, but did not have time to finish it for distribution.
Bob feels that a necessary element in the discussion is the algorithms used to
process the information.
Raj Raghuram suggested that some formal academic research might be helpful
in resolving the modeling of bounce effects. He will contact some individuals
regarding such a project. Bob and Raj also commented on the EIAJ III proposal
that gives a more detailed description of the internal chip power distribution
and uses table based transistor models. This description contains more
information that is useful for buffer bounce analysis.
Except for this general discussion, BIRD42.3 is not moving forward. A next
step may be a minor revision to map it in with the current Version 3.0
text. At some future time we will consider this issue for resolution.
SWITCHING TERMINATORS
Arpad Muranyi reported that he will work with Bob Ross concerning describing
the characteristics so that its features can be formulated into a BIRD. Bob
reported that he has a rough idea of what is needed for simulation. However,
he has some interaction type questions to best fit the functionality into
the IBIS format. Some of these relate to which rail sources or sinks the
current to be compatible for future bounce analysis.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, November 7, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
sjpeters@ichips.intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF1-56
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Mon Oct 20 08:47:56 1997
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