Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
From: Guy de Burgh (gdeburgh@camarillo.innoveda.com)
Date: Tue Oct 30 2001 - 09:23:12 PST
DATE: 10/30/01
SUBJECT: October 26, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal*
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui,
Fred Balistreri
Avanti (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen
IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel,
Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*,
Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen,
Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic Larry Barnes*
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd
Micron Technology Randy Wolff, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz*
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier,
Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski,
Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller,
Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer,
Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier
Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu
SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Acuson Kim Helliwell
AMCC Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd David Wright
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
BMW Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks Bob Haller
Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet
(Aerospatiale)
EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA Cecilia Fleming
Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm
FCI Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
Reliability and
Integration
Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang
Idaho State University Al Davis
Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin
KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda
National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard
Science (INSA)
Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
Janne Uusitalo
North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon
Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
November 16, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 8906706
1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In)
December 7, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 6467862
1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In)
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Cox joined from Micron Technologies. He is involved designing module
products related to DDR33 memory modules and is attending in place of the
regular Micron representatives.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that our membership stands at 34, unchanged from
last month.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 5, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this change: Milt Swartz
spelling was corrected to Milt Schwartz under Opens for New Issues. The
corrected minutes have been uploaded.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq updated the Upcoming Events link of the IBIS
Home page.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported that he intends to review and update any broken links
on the IBIS Models page in the next few weeks.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Stephen Peters reported that we will meet with the JEITA people
including Atsuji Itoh of Panasonic during the IBIS Summit Meeting in
January 2002 at DesignCon regarding IBIS-X plans.
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - No Report.
- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.
- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes
reported that the SCSI specification technical report has passed the
ballot, and the committee has responded to comments. The responses will
be reviewed before the document is officially published. The committee
expects to move forward to making the technical report an official
technical standard. An updated document should be available next week
under:
OTHER SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS
- DesignCon2002
Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara,
California. We will an Associate Sponsor. A large meeting room and
refreshments will be provided. We will also plan on a booth, and Guy de
Burgh will be handling the arrangements. Innoveda will be providing the
backdrop. Milt Schwartz is handling the local arrangements and National
Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch. Initial notices about the meeting
will be issued in early December 2001.
- Date2002
Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit
Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France.
So far, Mentor Graphics and Zuken are co-sponsors. More co-sponsors are
requested. As before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI
issues.
- JEDEC 2002
Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS committee has been invited to attend
the 2002 JEDEC JC-16 and JC-43 meetings in Vancouver, British Columbia.
This would be a joint session between IBIS and JEDEC. Stephen noted that
the JC-16 under DC Sessions has previously been involved in IBIS committee
activities, suggesting a series of input specification enhancements that
resulted in BIRD 62. The joint meeting represents an opportunity for
further collaboration. However, the JEDEC sessions will occur during the
annual IBIS East summit in September 2002, making a joint meeting difficult.
Bob Ross suggested that perhaps the two meetings could be coordinated via
teleconference. This and other ideas were discussed further. The people
on the West Coast would probably want to attend the Vancouver meeting.
Several people may be attending PCB East on business, so holding an East
Coast meeting still makes sense.
The IBIS Committee does not need to decide on this. However, EIA and
Cecilia Fleming are making the early plans, arrangements and commitments
and would like to know whether the IBIS Committee will participate. At
this time it appears that we would participate in the Vancouver meeting
and will try to creatively consider holding the East Coast meeting at the
same time.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross reported no new models.
MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that much work has been done. Text archiving of
ibis@eda.org reflector messages still appears to be broken. All other
archiving appears to be working. John will continue working with the system
administrators on the problem.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on October 9 and 16, 2001.
The next one is scheduled on October 30, 2001. Review of chapter 7 has been
completed, with the major remaining item of discussion having to do with
incorporation of s-parameter matrices into the specification. Although more
editing work needs to be done, we are still on track for release of the
specification in the first quarter of 2002.
IBIS FUTURES REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held October 11, 18, and 25,
2001. The next one is scheduled on November 1, 2001. Chapters 1 through
5 have been reviewed, with chapter 6 scheduled next. The committee hopes
to begin reviewing the implementation of IBIS ver 3.2 in IBIS-ML (Macro
Language) during the month of November.
BIRD72.2 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS//PMOS SERIES FET MODELS
Bob Ross introduced BIRD72.2, originally issued by Tom Dagostino. Bob
discussed that some more cleanup was done, particularly replacing Vgs with
Vtable. This was to deal with the fact that both PMOS and NMOS devices
could be used, and Vgs was now ambiguous. Bob reviewed the contents of the
document and pointed out that the new example that showed expected
non-monotonic I-V table behavior for a PMOS//NMOS switch.
Bob suggested one minor editorial change on the revised diagram, replacing
a transistor dashed line with a solid line. This would be documented as
BIRD72.3.
Lynne Green questioned the statement that the [Power Clamp Reference] would
take priority over [Voltage Range]. Bob responded that this was consistent
with how the new references were handled when they were introduced in IBIS
Version 2.1. Furthermore, the [Power Clamp Reference] was retained as the
reference voltage for both PMOS and NMOS devices.
Stephen asked for a vote on BIRD72.2 with the modification above. BIRD72.2
was unanimously approved as revised. Bob will issue the revised BIRD72.3.
BIRD73.2 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Bob Ross issued BIRD73.2 with some substantial changes and simplifications
of the functionality. Bob covered the changes in a lengthy discussion. The
changes were broken down into clarifications and corrections to the bus hold
submodel, and changes to the fall back submodel.
The bus hold submodel starts at one state, but then is triggered to the
other state when a voltage passes a trigger value in a manner that adds to
or makes the transition stronger. Bob corrected some examples. He noted
that one example was documented for a pullup bus hold model, but actually
had a pulldown table. So he revised the related comments to correspond to
the actual example. In other cases he entered the Off_delay values by
magnitude since there is no process dependency.
One discussion centered around an added recommendation regarding selecting
the bus hold initial state. Bob commented that there are cases where the
initial state criteria documented in Version 3.2 could not be satisfied or
were both satisfied. These cases can be created normally under unusual
situations beyond the expected operation. In BIRD73.1 Bob proposed using
the driver state (low or high) as the basis. However, he found that some
tools may have difficulty in determining this. Instead, he proposed a
strategy of choosing the state based on evaluating the voltage at the die.
Stephen Peters commented that the sentence "Different types of EDA tools
might approach this differently" needed to be clarified. Bob stated that
this might be removed. The problem was that the method of finding the
initial state would technically require testing the net with the bus hold
at each of the states before determining the correct state. Some tools
might just ignore the bus hold to find the voltage level. Bob suggested
that for some cases more than one cycle might be needed to reach the stable
situation. Bob will rework this area.
Another discussion centered around the added tables showing the state logic.
Stephen suggested that "low" and "high" be defined in terms of the pullup
and pulldown tables being on and off. For example, a pulldown table is at
the "low" state when conducting, and the "high" state when it is turned off
and not conducting. The opposite applies for the pullup table. Bob will
add text to clarify this.
Bob also explained the tables. The bus hold with Off_delay is a special
case that is designed to provide a temporary boost during one of the half
cycles and do nothing for the other half. It is somewhat similar to the
[Driver Schedule] boost operation except that Bus hold is action is
initiated by a trigger voltage (instead of a delayed time) and then turned
off after the Off_delay time. Because the operation is designed to provide
only a one-half cycle boost, only a single [Pullup] or [Pulldown] table is
required. This allows the "off" state to be defined. Furthermore, the
initial state is set to the "off" mode. Another table shows this for the
cases where the submodel has only a pulldown or a pullup table.
The additional fall back section was discussed. Bob stated that the fall
back submodel might be considered to have opposite action as the bus hold
model with Off_delay. The buffer in the Driving mode might be given extra
strength at the beginning, but the extra buffer operation is turned off
when the die voltage passes through a trigger threshold so that the final
impedance of the buffer might match better the transmission line impedance
for better signal quality. Bob had tried to write the fall back submodel in
the most general terms. However, he decided to put in the following limits:
It operate in Driving mode only, it would consist of only a [Pullup] or
[Pulldown] table, and it would be initialized in a manner similar to the
bus hold Off_delay submodel.
The Driving model restriction comes from the fact that fall back submodel is
expected to transition from an off to an on state and then back off during
a one-half cycle, similar to bus hold Off_delay model. It should stay in
a high-Z state during the other one-half cycle. The fall back is turned on
when the driver is turned on. This can only be detected if the submodel is
connected to a driver. This discussion addressed Stephen's question
regarding the driving model of operation. Bob stated that an I/O or 3-state
buffer can have a Driving mode. Only Input and Terminator buffers would
have no operation. Bob preferred a Warning message if a fall back submodel
were called by an Input or Terminator model documenting that the submodel
will be inactive.
The fact that only a [Pulldown] or [Pullup] table is permitted is based on
the need that the buffer needs a high-Z state in practice. It needs to be
turned on and then off. Also, the initialization needs to be in the state
so that it goes through the off-to-on-to-off transition during one-half
cycle and remains "off" and in operative in the other one-half cycle.
Greg Edlund asked how we would model both pullup and pulldown fall back
buffers. Bob commented that BIRD73.2 states and documents that two separate
submodels are used, one for the pullup and one for the pulldown. This is
how we can achieve a high state boost and a low state boost and also start
and end with a high-Z mode - similar to bus hold with Off_delay.
Bob concluded that he will issue BIRD73.3 with the suggested changes. Since
this was a complex addition, more discussion will be scheduled at the next
meeting.
IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that Lynne Green provided an ibischk3.2.7 executable
for Linux. This has been uploaded.
Also Atul Agarwal plans to deliver the ibischk3.2.8 parser to Matthew Flora
soon. It will fix BUGs 48-56, except for BUG55. Matthew will fix BUG55 and
also possible BUG59 before releasing. We will then distribute the source
code to the people licensing the parser and also generate executables to
upload.
- BUG61 - Parser Fails to Flag Missing [Series Switch Groups] Table
Bob Ross introduced BUG61 issued by Jim Bell. It reports a problem that
is missed by ibischk3. When a Series Switch is modeled, and it contains
a function_table_group entry, there needs to be a [Series Switch Groups]
keyword to document how the table states are set. This error needs to be
reported.
BUG61 was classified as Moderate, Medium, and Open.
- BUG62 - Not All Non-Monotonic Points Reported
Bob Ross introduced BUG62, reported by Tracy Sopchak and issued through
Lynne Green. It dealt with the fact that not all non-monotonic points in
a table are reported. The problem is that when one point is fixed,
another gets reported. Lynne suggested that a count of points might be
reported. Stephen Peters commented that the user needs to know where the
non-monotonic points are located. Larry Barnes indicated that noisy tables
make multiple non-monotonic points a common problem. Milt Schwartz
commented that the displays tables in spread sheets and graphs is any
non-monotonic point is reported. We ran out of time before deciding on
how to resolve this. Stephen will put it on the agenda for discussion at
the next meeting.
At this time, BUG62 is classified as Low, Annoying, and Open
XML FOR IBIS
Bob Ross has sent Atul Agarwal some sanitized models to use as examples.
Bob still expects to upload the XML material for review when he receives the
XML translations.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, November 16, 2001 from
8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Innoveda
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
roy_leventhal@3com.com
Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com
subsidiary)
1800 W. Central Rd.
Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Innoveda
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
majordomo@eda.org
In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>
In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>
Help and other commands:
help
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
============================================================================
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Tue Oct 30 2001 - 09:55:33 PST