Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
From: Guy de Burgh (gdeburgh@camarillo.innoveda.com)
Date: Mon Nov 19 2001 - 09:20:51 PST
==================================================
DATE: 11/19/01
SUBJECT: November 16, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal*
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui,
Fred Balistreri
Avanti (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen
IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Wes Martin,
Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel,
Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*,
Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen,
Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd*
Micron Technology Randy Wolff, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier,
Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski,
Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller,
Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer,
Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier
Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu
SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Acuson Kim Helliwell
AMCC Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd David Wright
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
BMW Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks Bob Haller
Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet
(Aerospatiale)
EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA Cecilia Fleming*
Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm
FCI Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
Reliability and
Integration
Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang
Idaho State University Al Davis
Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin
KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda
National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard
Science (INSA)
Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
Janne Uusitalo
North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon
Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
December 7, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 6467862
1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In)
January 11, 2002 1-916-356-2663 2 8295945
(International Dial-in the same)
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new members.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that our membership is unchanged from the
34 members reported last month.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 26, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this change: Micron
Technologies was corrected to Micron Technology in the Introduction.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Compaq's roster page listing will be updated
with new contact information.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported that the IBIS Models page has been updated as of
November 11, 2001. Roy asked if commercial IBIS model creation companies
could be added to the roster. Bob Ross replied that we do not list
commercial model making services, however EDA companies can mention their
model creation services in the tag line of their companies listings.
Bob Ross reported these new, changed or reorganized links:
Actel Semiconductor:
http://www.actel.com/custsup/models/ibis.html
Aeroflex UTMC (search IBIS for download links):
http://www.utmc.com/
Fairchild Semiconductor:
Analog and Mixed Signal IBIS Models:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Analog_and_Mixed_Signal/index.html
Interface and Logic IBIS Models:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Interface_and_Logic/index.html
Interface Models:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/interface/models.html
Hitachi, I-Cube and International Microelectronics (sold to Cypress) model
links are gone.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Stephen Peters reported that representatives from JEITA are
planning on attending the IBIS summit in January. They wish to learn
more about IBIS future activity, especially IBIS-X activity. JEITA
representatives are also planning on making presentation at the summit
on EDA activities in Japan.
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters
reported that the latest documents have been released and exist under
these links for IEC processing (the links split into several lines to
prevent mailer truncation):
http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/
8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/
fa7c022ff4ce65b4c1256ad1004bf436?OpenDocument
http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/
8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/
cdfd39bc801a98dbc1256ad1005599b3?OpenDocument
The information was passed on to the IBIS reflector for any comments.
Stephen and Bob Ross expect to provide feedback on these documents.
- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.
- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report.
S2IBIS3 MEETING REPORT
Stephen Peters reported on a meeting with Drs. Paul Franzon and Michael
Steer from North Carolina State University (NCSU) on November 2, 2001 at
Intel. Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Stephen Peters and Lynne Green attended.
This meeting was in response to a request for a follow up to the
presentation given by Paul at the September IBIS Users Group Meeting. Paul
presented more detail on their S2IBIS3 development and how it fits into
their NEOCAD simulation environment development.
FUTURE SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS
- DesignCon2002
Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara,
California. Plans are set and initial notices about the meeting will be
issued in early December 2001. Stephen reminded those that are planning
on attending to make your travel reservations as soon as possible.
Stephen also did a quick count of the officers who will attending.
Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda is still planning to provide the IBIS
booth. Bob Ross stated that Milt Schwartz is handling the arrangements
and National Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch.
- Date2002
Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit
Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France.
Guy de Burgh reported that Innoveda has agreed to join Mentor Graphics and
Zuken in co-sponsoring the event. More co-sponsors are requested. As
before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI issues.
- JEDEC 2002
Stephen Peters asked the group if there was any more ideas regarding
attending the September 2002 JEDEC meeting in Vancouver BC. The JEDEC
meeting days overlap with the IBIS Users Group meeting and IBIS Summit in
September 2002. Bob Ross noted that, based on past history, arranging and
hosting a summit costs a minimum of $1,300, so this needs to be taken into
consideration if both meetings are to be turned into official IBIS
Summits.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross reported that a Series MOSFET component from Texas Instruments has
been distributed for review.
MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that text messages are now being archived in the
email.digest archive. Stephen thanked John and Steve Grout who
provides computer support for EIA for their work. Bob Ross went on to
state that the e-mail archive directory structure allows the email
archive to be separated into half yearly archives. Bob then asked for
guidance on adding a tag on the subject line of IBIS reflector traffic,
much like is done for the si-list reflector. Stephen Peters also
suggested automatically appending unsubscribe information at the bottom.
After discussion John and Bob agreed to work on these projects.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on October 30, November 6,
and 13, 2001. The next one is scheduled on November 20, 2001. The
connector committee has finished a technical review of the specification.
A few more technical changes have been made in order to simplify and
clarify the specification, including dropping an automatic pin map
generation function. An editorial review still remains to be done.
Stephen also mentioned that Gus Panella of the connector committee is
arranging meetings with connector users in order to obtain feedback.
We are still on track to have the specification ready for Open Forum
review in the first quarter of 2002.
IBIS FUTURES REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on November 1 and 15,
2001. The next meeting is scheduled for November 29. More work has been
done on the macro language specification, and we have resolved many issues
with the primitive elements. Stephen will work offline with Lynne Green to
get chapter 6 drafted and into the IBIS-ML specification. Stephen indicated
that the committee will focus next on describing IBIS 3.2 and the proposed
IBIS 4.0 birds in the macro language.
BIRD73.3 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Bob Ross issued BIRD73.3 with some revisions as suggested at the October 26,
2001 IBIS Meeting. These consisted of clarifying what "low" and "high"
means in the Bus Hold and Fall Back sections and to editorially revise the
Bus Hold paragraph concerning the ambiguous situation when the tests for
initial bus hold submodel settings are either not met or both met.
In further reviewing BIRD73.3, Bob discovered another minor editorial error
and the fact that the Fall Back DRIVER FALLING CYCLE table had a functional
error caused indirectly by editorial cutting and pasting. The error needs
to be corrected.
Bob plans to issue BIRD73.4 with the corrections. He also suggested that
BIRD73.4 be put on the agenda to be voted on at the next meeting. This
forces the issue of closing it out. However, Bob stated that BIRD73.4 is
complicated, and it would be a reasonable resolution to defer the vote if
there still existed any technical concerns or questions. Stephen Peters
agreed that this was a reasonable way to proceed.
AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD73.4 with the discussed corrections two weeks prior
to the next meeting for a formal vote.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that ibischk3.2.8 is ready for distribution to the
organizations holding the source code license. The distribution would have
already been done before the meeting, but we had some e-mail problems.
Bob has not seen the final version, so he cannot yet comment on whether the
code included fixes for BUG55 and BUG59, as previously discussed. Guy de
Burgh plans to generate Unix executables on several platforms, and Lynne
Green will generate Linux executables.
Bob also asked that if any finds problems with ibischk3.2.8, let him know.
If there are any serious issues, we can "recall" the source code
distribution and not upload any executables.
- BUG62 - Not All Non-Monotonic Points Reported
Bob Ross re-introduced BUG62, reported by Tracy Sopchak and issued through
Lynne Green. This bus was discussed at the last teleconference, but we
ran out of time before deciding on the desired disposition. In brief,
there is a debate regarding the desirability of reporting multiple
non-monotonic points in a non-monotonic waveform. Bob is in favor of
only reporting the first non-monotonic point, thus forcing the user to
examine the waveform. Lynne Green suggested that instead of multiple
warning messages the parser could issue one warning message then list the
number of non-monotonic points. Bob argued that BUG62 was really minor
and probably not worth fixing. The issue is that each BUG fix does costs
time and money, and may risk breaking something. This is a case that the
user has been warned and should look at the whole table further. After
further discussion, the group agreed to accept the resolution
of "WILL NOT FIX" to close out BUG62.
BUG62 classification is changed to ANNOYING, LOW and WILL NOT FIX.
- BUG63 - Some BUG47 Reported Waveform Percentages Wrong
Bob Ross introduced BUG63. The BUG47 improvement, which gives a more
descriptive report for various cases of V-T table waveform mismatch, does
have a few cases where the reported percentages are wrong and could be
very misleading. The actual "Error" vs "Warning" distinction remains
correct, but incorrectly calculated percentages such as 176.8% for a
real 2.3% mismatch can cause some wasteful searching to try to resolve
this. So while this is an annoyance, it is a problem that needs to be
fixed.
BUG63 was classified as ANNOYING, MEDIUM, and OPEN and with the
action item that it will be fixed in the next release of ibischk3.
XML FOR IBIS
Bob Ross reported that he has not yet received some sanitized IBIS to XML
formatted models from Atul Agarwal, therefore he has not yet uploaded any
related material.
NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES
Stephen Peters noted that in a recent ibis-users reflector discussion
(Subject: "Input model with Pullup-/Pulldown-Reference"), an issue was
raised with input models. In brief, the IBIS specification states
that if the [voltage Range] keyword is not used, then all four of the
other voltage reference keywords (Pullup, Pulldown, Power Clamp and GND
Clamp) must be present. However, input models do not contain pullup or
pulldown structures, so the [Pullup Reference] and [Pulldown Reference]
keywords are not applicable. Arpad Muranyi mentioned a particular ECL input
modeling case where the [Power Clamp] and [GND Clamp] keywords may have to
be used. However, Stephen pointed out that the specification allows
[Voltage Range] to be used with [GND Clamp], so the specification is not
forcing the user into including the pullup and pulldown reference keywords
when they are not needed. Bob Ross then pointed out that an input model
with a bus-hold submodel may need to use [Pullup Reference] or
[Pulldown Reference] so that disallowing these keywords in an input model
cannot be prohibited. After further discussion the group agreed that the
specification did not need to be changed or clarified.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 7, 2001 from
8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time. Bird 73.4 is scheduled for a vote.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Innoveda
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
roy_leventhal@3com.com
Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com
subsidiary)
1800 W. Central Rd.
Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Innoveda
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Mon Nov 19 2001 - 09:57:54 PST