Subject: [IBIS] Meeting minutes (Aug 30, 2002)
From: Guy deBurgh (gdeburgh@innoveda.com)
Date: Tue Sep 03 2002 - 08:15:10 PDT
DATE: 09/3/02
SUBJECT: August 30, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui
Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne
Graphics)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis,
Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik*
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly,
Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, Tom Dagostino,
Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola Rick Kingen
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz*
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre)
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski
Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles,
Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher*, Steve Coe,
Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock,
Bob Haller
Sigrity Raj Raghuram
SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin
Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow)
Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002:
3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn
Actel Prabhu Mohan
Agilent Herbert Lage
Airbus Claude Huet
Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto
Apt Software Atul Agarwal
Astrium Olivier Prieur
Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham
EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault)
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Force Computers Roger Sukiennik
Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler
Systems
Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido
Information Technology
Industries Association
(JEITA)
Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal
Communication
National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola)
Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau
Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer
Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines
Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome]
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres
Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang)
TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro
Thales Saverio Lerose
Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick)
UTMC Greg Haynes
Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long
Independent Larry Barnes
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
September 20, 2002 1-916-356-2663 2 0597966
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Quorum of 5 companies. No new attendees.
CALL FOR PATENTS
Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS
Version 4.0 Standard.
No companies declared a patent.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Three
memberships or reconciliation of paid memberships are still pending with
EIA records.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
In the August 9, 2002 minutes, Stephen Peters noted that Bob Haller's
name should have been with Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), not Sigrity.
The minutes were approved with this correction.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Stephen Peters noted that National Semiconductor plans to co-sponsor the
DesignCon 2003 IBIS Summit Meeting in January 27, 2002 by providing the
lunch for participants.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq sent out a request for Roster updates.
This is the way we delete obsolete entries. All member companies will have
a roster listing whether or not they respond.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal updated the models link on August 26, 2002.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross asked that the following three bug reports be added to the agenda.
BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test
BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages
BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs
to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document.
PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Stephen Peters reported that the PCB Conference East IBIS Summit Meeting
has been rescheduled from Thursday, October 17, 2002 to Tuesday, October 15,
2002 to avoid conflicting with the Exhibitors show. It will held at North
East Systems Associates (NESA) in Westford, Massachusetts to be closer to
potential attendees. Kathy Breda is handling the local arrangements, and
we plan to provide refreshments and lunch to participants. So far Cadence
and NESA are co-sponsors. The first Announcement for participation,
sponsorship and presentations has been sent out to the reflectors.
Of those on-line, no one said they were going to PCB East. Bob Ross is
not sure yet. Given the tight travel budget, it was decided that at
the meeting will be held via teleconference. Several possible presentation
topics were mentioned, including one by Stephen Peters on the ICM
specification. Stephen will follow-up with Kathy Breda on presentations and
other attendee names.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES
Bob Ross reported that the README file gives the advances in IBIS Version
4.0 over IBIS Version 3.2
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ver4.0/
Stephen Peters sent out a request for proposal to the IBIS and SI reflectors
and has received nine responses to date. Lynne Green has drafted a
requirements document against which the potential developers can bid, and
this document has been sent to the bidders. Three bidders have requested
ibischk3 source code. Deadline for receiving bids is Monday,
September 16, 2002.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported on meetings held August 13, and 27, 2002. Lynne noted
that the checklist and meeting minutes have been posted to the IBIS
web page under the Quality Committee Work In Progress link:
http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-quality/checklist/
Barry Katz will report at PCB East.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Lynne Green reported no new models have been received.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
No new issues reported.
BIRD75.3 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support
BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions
Bob Ross opened the discussion by summarizing some of the technical
discussion that has occurred on the web, especially in regards to the
issue of where [External Model] was placed relative to the standard
[Model] keyword, the need for parameter passing, and the distinction between
[External Model] and [External Circuit]. [External Model] and [External
Circuit] can each contain active or passive circuits, but there is a set of
implicit signal interfaces to [External Model]. Finally, Bob noted that he
has been communicating with Stephen Peters and Al Davis privately on various
issues.
Bob mentioned that in response to last meeting's AR he has uploaded an
AMS example file to http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/samples/ver4.1/.
Regarding Lynne Green's question on providing more than the typ/min/max
model corners, Bob replied that he expects model makers to use multiple
models, as is done now. Bob also decided not to support calling SPICE .LIB
files directly from [External Model].
Discussion then moved to the issue of keeping [External Model] as a keyword
under the existing [Model] keyword or moving it to the same level as
[Model]. Bob noted that BIRD 75.2 proposes allowing a [Model] to contain
both data tables and an [External Model] keyword. Stephen Peters mentioned
that this allows compatibility in legacy simulators. Arpad countered
that by making [External Model] separate from the current [Model] keyword a
much cleaner set of subparameter rules can be defined and used -- we don't
have to carry around historical baggage. Further discussion underscored a
philosophical difference between those that wish to keep and use the current
subparameters rules with [External Model] (it provides consistency) versus
those that wish to start with a clean slate. The sense of the group is to
leave BIRD75 as is ([External Model] as a keyword under [Model]), but Bob
has not made a final decision yet pending any definitive technical
arguments one way or the other.
On the need for parameter passing, Arpad described an application where an
AMS model accepts one parameter that scales equations for typ/min/max or
anywhere between. Discussion pointed out that tools could display
parameters for user. Ian Dodd posed another example, that of setting buffer
strengths. Bob suggested that to further the discussion someone needs to
make a concrete proposal for parameter passing. Ian Dodd agreed to write
up such a proposal and post it on the reflector. Ian further suggested using
the "Generic" statement format from VHDL-AMS in the existing BIRD,
including support for enumerated lists and integers. Bob Ross noted
this would need to be a specific section of the model in order for the
EDA tool to find it, and might need to specify a min/max range.
The consensus is that there needs to be a mechanism in [External Model]
for parameter passing. However, there was no consensus if this mechanism
should be included in the current BIRD75 or deferred to a later BIRD.
Further discussion was tabled to the next meeting.
Bob Ross will issue BIRD 75.4, and will also talk to Atul Agarwal (the
current ibischk3 parser developer) to ascertain if there are any parser
implications regarding [External Model] keyword placement.
BIRD74.1 - EMI Parameters
Bob Ross reported that Guy de Burgh revised BIRD 74.2 into two
sections, similar to BIRD 75. However Bob suggests that this
should be further revised into one section even though the two
sections made sense. This reorganization makes this BIRD easier
to read by combining all the EMI parameters in one place rather
than having them spread out all over the spec. Guy will revise
the BIRD and he and Bob will review it, clean up the syntax, and
clarify some of the parameters.
Guy reported that there was a paper given at the recent IEEE EMC
Symposium in Minneapolis, MN that discusses how the Cpd (power
dissipation parameter) is used to estimate DC power bus EMI.
The paper is:
"Estimating DC Power Bus Noise", by J. Mao, B. Archambeault,
J. Drewniak, T.P. Van Doren. IEEE EMC Symposium, 19-23 Aug 2002,
Minneapolis MN, pp 1032-1036.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that no meetings were held because of vacations.
Stephen Peters has contacted Gus Panella to try and arrange a time
for the next connector working group meeting.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that several new BUG reports need to be discussed and
classified.
- BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables
This bug was submitted by Bob Haller. Currently, ibischk3 checks all I-V
tables independently. This proposal calls for ibischk to check the I-V
tables after have been combined as they would be in normal usage. The
quality committee feels that this will allow for a "zero warning, zero
error" pass criteria for good models. Bob would like the author to
explicitly state what the I-V table combination rules are. It is also not
clear if the new checks replace the old ones or if they are simply in
addition to the existing I-V table checks. Kevin Fisher agreed to work
with Bob Haller to update the BUG report. In the meantime, BUG71 is
classified as Enhancement, Low and Open.
- BUG72 - Tab Warning Message Promotion
This bug was submitted by Lynne Green. Bob Ross noted that sometime
between ibischk2 and ibischk3 the Tab warning message was promoted above
the line indicating where the checking was occurring, making it difficult
to determine which file in a set of files was generating an error. This
bug is classified as Annoying, Low and Open, and we will plan to fix it.
- BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test (New Agenda)
- BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages (New Agenda Item)
- BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker
Due to a lack of time the above BUG report discussions were deferred to
next meeting.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on September 20, 2002 from 8:00 AM
to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
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