Subject: [IBIS] IBIS minutes (09/20/02)
From: deBurgh, Guy (guy_deburgh@mentorg.com)
Date: Mon Sep 23 2002 - 14:06:24 PDT
DATE: 09/23/02
SUBJECT: September 20, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui
Cadence Design Lynne Green, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM Greg Edlund*, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Steve Gascoigne
Graphics)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis,
Michael Mirmak*
LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik*
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly,
Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino],
Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola Rick Kingen
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre)
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski
Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles,
Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe,
Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock,
Bob Haller
Sigrity Raj Raghuram
SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin
Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow)
Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002:
3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn
Actel Prabhu Mohan
Agilent Herbert Lage
Airbus Claude Huet
Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto
Apt Software Atul Agarwal
Astrium Olivier Prieur
Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham
EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault)
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Force Computers Roger Sukiennik
Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler
Systems
Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido
Information Technology
Industries Association
(JEITA)
Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal*
Communication
National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola)
Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau
Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer
Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines
Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome]
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres
Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang)
TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro
Thales Saverio Lerose
Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick)
UTMC Greg Haynes
Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long
Independent Larry Barnes
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
October 15, 2002 IBIS East Summit TBD
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new attendees. Stephen Peters noted that Vice-chair Lynne Green was
on vacation.
CALL FOR PATENTS
Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS
Version 4.0 Standard.
No companies declared a patent.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Three
memberships or reconciliation of paid memberships are still pending with
EIA records.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The August 30, 2002 minutes were approved without change.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross reported on Lynne Green's trip to Vancouver B.C. to attend the
JEDEC JC-16 committee meeting. Bob reported that there was good interaction
with D.C Sessions and JEDEC committee.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq has updated the roster page, purging
no longer active companies and adding several new ones. The Upcoming
Events link has also been updated with the latest information on the IBIS
East Summit, and the FAQ link has been updated as well.
Bob Ross reported the article in the September 16, 2002 issue of Electronic
Engineering Times: "HDLs put IBIS on Steroids" by Glenn Perry, page 44
covers some pending IBIS activities related to multi-lingual simulation.
The article is available at the following URL:
http://www.eedesign.com/story/OEG20020912S0062
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported that he has a link update that he will accomplish
in the next two weeks.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs
to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document.
PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Stephen Peters reported that the PCB Conference East IBIS Summit Meeting
is scheduled on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 to avoid conflicting with the
Exhibitors show (held at Boxborough, Massachusetts). It will held at North
East Systems Associates (NESA) in Westford, Massachusetts to be closer to
potential attendees. Kathy Breda is handling the local arrangements, and
we plan to provide refreshments and lunch to participants. Cadence, NESA,
and Intel are co-sponsors.
Intel will provide a phone bridge to the meeting - probably from 1 PM
5 PM Eastern Time (10 AM to 2 PM Pacific Time). This is in response to the
fact that travel is being restricted in most companies that normally would
send participants to the conference and/or to the meeting. Ed Sayre will
most likely Chair the meeting.
A second call for papers has been posted to the IBIS reflector.
Bob Ross reported that the program is under development. So far there
are four presentations (titles are tentative):
IBIS Checklist - Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft)
IBIS versus SPICE - Bob Haller, SiSoft
ICM Specification - Stephen Peters, Intel - (teleconference)
Measurement Based IBIS Models - Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed
Open discussions are possible. Most likely, lunch will be provided before
the meeting, and then the meeting will be conducted from 1 PM to 5 PM
(Eastern time) based on the contents of the program and presentations
submitted.
All presentations need to be sent by Thursday, October 10, 2002 so they can
be uploaded for remote viewing, and copies can be made for local attendees.
Presentations will be available under the IBIS Summits Link or directly
under:
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct02/
IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES
Stephen Peters reported that eight bids on the ibischk4 parser project
were received by the September 16, 2002 deadline. The IBIS officers and
other interested persons meet on September 19, 2002 to review each bid.
After careful consideration against the established criteria the number
of contending bids was narrowed to the three strongest candidates. Stephen
will conduct follow-up interviews with each of the final candidates, and a
final decision is expected in the next two weeks.
On the question of funding parser development, Stephen noted that we have
approximately $21,000 in reserve for parser funding. As the contending bids
are all in the $25,000 dollar price range, the IBIS committee will have to
raise funds for the remainder. This is in addition to any other funds
needed for follow on parser work (pending birds BIRD75 and BIRD77 were not
included in the RFQ) and payments owed for bug fixes to the current parser.
Stephen suggested a couple of different funding models. One would be to
charge a flat $2,084 for the ibischk4 source license. Recognizing the
current economic times, we might also consider granting current ibischk3
source code license holders a free upgrade to ibischk4, but then charging
new license holders full price.
Arpad Muranyi asked how many companies currently own the parser. Bob Ross
replied that 17 companies purchased source code licenses, but through
various
acquisitions and mergers licenses holders have been reduced to 13
independent companies. Also, Bob noted that some companies purchase the
parser in order to support IBIS activities, but don't actually use it to
produce product. Bob suggested charging current parser license owner a
nominal charge for the upgrade to ibischk4, but then charging full price
for new licenses.
No decision was reached, and further discussion will be required. In the
meantime Stephen and Bob will pool current and potential license holders
to determine their ability to fund new development and at what level.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
There was no formal report. Bob Ross notes that the committee met on
Sept. 11, 2002.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Stephen Peters reported that no new models have been received.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
No new issues reported.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Stephen Peters reported on a futures group meeting held on September 12,
2002. A final editorial update to the IBIS Interconnect (ICM) Specification
was agreed upon, thus paving the way for a draft version 1.0 ICM
specification
to be posted. Gus Panella (specification author) has completed the final
draft of version 1.0, and it has been posted to the IBIS web page under the
connector info link:
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/
Stephen thanked all those who have been involved in creating the ICM
specification.
BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters
Guy de Burgh was unable to attend the teleconference, so in his absence
Stephen Peters reported that Guy has posted BIRD74.2, an update to the EMI
parameters bird. The main change was to put all the EMI parameters into
one section. This is referred to as Section 10 in the Bird. The section
has entries for [Component] and [Model] keywords. Within each of these
keywords there are defined [Begin] and [End] keywords to bound the EMI
parameters. This makes both the specification and the model readable.
Thanks go to Bob Ross for reviewing and correcting the syntax.
Guy asks for comments on the content.
BIRD75.4 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support
BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions
In response to comments from last meeting Bob Ross posted BIRD75.4.
In addition, Arpad Muranyi has pointed out several more editorial
corrections. Bob will work with Aprad to issue a revised BIRD75.5.
The major change from BIRD75.3 to BIRD75.4 was the addition of parameter
passing (the "parameter" subparameter) to the [External Model] keyword. In
a reflector discussion, it was suggested that in addition to the parameter
name, this subparameter should include such information as the parameter
value, type (integer, floating point number, text string, etc.) and units.
However, Bob noted that this would create difficulty when the parameter
value is in units that are not supported by IBIS. Indeed, the reflector
example included a value in degrees Fahrenheit, which is not supported.
Stephen Peters pointed out that while including parameter value and type
might be good for documentation purposes, there is the danger of allowing
the same parameter to be defined differently in two different places.
In a related issue, Arpad Muranyi asked how an encrypted [External Model]
would communicate with a user interface, i.e. can model encryption prevent
the knowledge or use of these parameters. Bob Ross was also curious about
this point, and will research this to see what various tools do. Bob
did point out that parameters must be visible to the executing program
in some manner, else the parameters in the encrypted section would be
useless.
In summary, Bob is strongly leaning towards keeping the "parameter"
subparameter as originally defined, and not adding the extra information.
After discussion, the consensus was to keep the name "parameters", rather
than shortening it to "param".
Finally, in a follow up to last teleconferences discussion on the relative
scope of [External Model], Atul Agarwal replied to Bob Ross that for parser
development it would be easier to keep [External Model] scoped under the
[Model] keyword.
Based on the current discussion, Stephen will mostly likely call for a vote
on BIRD75.5 and BIRD77 at the meeting following the IBIS East summit
meeting.
BIRD78 - Comment Line Length Limit
Bob Ross introduced BIRD78, which was authored by Lynne Green. This BIRD
was suggested by the IBIS quality committee, and deals with relaxing the
line length limit rule following a comment character. Further discussion
was postponed pending Lynne returns.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that several new BUG reports need to be discussed and
classified.
- BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables
There was no update on this BUG report. Before this bug can be
dispositioned the BUG authors must clarify what the IV table combination
rules are as well as if the checks replace the old ones or are intended
to be in addition to the existing checks.
- BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test
This bug was submitted by Arpad Muranyi. Arpad has discovered a case
where extreme non-monotonic values at the beginning of a table cause the
IV/VT end point test to fail. This bug is classified as Annoying and
Low. We will investigate it to see if a fix is possible.
- BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages
Bob Ross introduced BUG74, authored by Greg Edlund. It proposes more
Warning messages for missing Vmeas and various combinations of timing
test loads. Bob was concerned that some combinations were actually
complete if some implied default values were assumed. In particular,
Rref is infinity, if missing, Vref and Cref are 0 if missing. So
the Warning might be informational to state what is assumed or
that the intended values had not been entered. (Bob noted that the
IBIS Specification does not state default values.) Also, BUG74 needs
to document under what Model_types that the report applies. It also
needs to document that some of the values might be available as part
of the [Model Spec] keyword. Finally, it might be useful for some
Open_* model types to provide a Warning if Rref is not issued.
However, in all cases, the Warning might be issued for a valid model.
For example, internal terminators provided by the clamp tables might
also serve as the timing test load (such as for an Open_* device), and
no external Rref or Cref is needed. The Warning might be useful to
support a better style of explicitly stating the loads, even they are
the default values.
Greg stated that he will investigate this further and provide more
detail for an updated BUG report.
BUG74 was classified as Annoying, Medium and Open. We will need more
information before deciding on how to resolve BUG74.
- BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker
Bob Ross introduced this bug, which submitted by Lynne Green. When
ibischk3 source is complied into another program, and the other program
creates successive ibischk3 calls to EBD files, a crash can occurs if
there is an error in the second EBD file at the IBIS version level.
After a short discussion this bug was classified as Annoying, Low and to
be fixed.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be the IBIS East summit meeting on
October 15, 2002 from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
guy_deburgh@mentor.com
Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
John_angulo@mentor.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
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