Subject: [IBIS] Open forum minutes (10/24/03)
From: rrwolff@micron.com
Date: Tue Oct 28 2003 - 14:51:13 PST
DATE: 10/28/03
SUBJECT: OCTOBER 24, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte,
Val Mandruson, Hung Pham,
Todd Westerhoff
Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly)
Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Michael Mirmak*,
Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson
LSI Logic Frank Gasparik*
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd, Guy de Burgh*,
John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle]
NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda, Michael Baxter
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij,
Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller,
Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer,
Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi,
Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert
Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns
Sigrity [Raj Raghuram]
Sun Microsystems Tim Coyle
Synopsys Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino,
Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross*
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003:
Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage
Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu
Conexant Gary Felker
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez,
Simba Julian
Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin
Fujitsu Tadashi Arai
GEIA (Chris Denham)
Independent Luca Giacotto, Kelly Green, Shinichi Maeda
Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer
Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg
NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu
North Carolina State Univ. Ambrish Varma
Plexus Joseph Socha
Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano
Qlogic Larry Barnes
Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis
SiQual (Rob Hinz)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode
November 14, 2003 1-916-356-2663 1 477-8778
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are
typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are
typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting.
When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and
passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please
request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.
For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.
CALL FOR PATENTS
Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Michael Mirmak announced that, as of October 9, membership payment from Sun
Microsystems was accepted, bringing the Open Forum officially to 28 members.
The GEIA has provided a financial report through the end of October
showing positive revenue versus expenses for the year so far (approximately
$300). Bob Ross pointed out that GEIA's fiscal year is not the same as the
federal government, but corresponds to the calendar year. As a result, the
budget must cover expenses in November and December. Bob noted that the
Open Forum should consider itself exactly on budget for the year and that
this was a positive development.
Michael mentioned that any budgeting for the end of 2003 needs to take into
account reimbursement to NESA for the PCB East summit lunch and final
payment to Atul Agarwal for his IBISCHK4.0 parser work.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS
The October 3, 2003 meeting minutes were approved with one change: Bob Ross
noted that the previous minutes incorrectly noted that the minutes from the
"October 3" meeting and not the "September 12" meeting were approved. This
correction will be made to the on-line minutes.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross suggested that additional links should be added to the eigroup.org
web site to direct visitors to the IBIS 4.1 review text. In addition, the
current link on the EDA.org site to the directories and files previously
available through anonymous FTP no longer works, as anonymous FTP has been
discontinued on EDA.org. Bob proposed that a new link to a formal HTML
directory of files be added to the EDA.org IBIS site.
Bob Ross also mentioned that a new book by Eric Bogatin, called "Signal
Integrity Simplified," contains a chapter with a significant discussion on
IBIS. A summary of the book is available from the publisher:
http://vig.prenhall.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0130669466,00.html
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
No new models received.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
No new issues.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
No update.
- JEDEC Activity Report
Lynne Green noted that the JEDEX 2004 conference is being planned for
April 15 and April 16, 2004. More information can be found at:
PCB EAST SUMMIT SUMMARY
Michael Mirmak summarized the events at the PCB East Summit, held on October
21. Attendance was good, with 18 people from 12 organizations
participating. The quality of technical presentations and discussion was
high, with excellent suggestions from the participants as to future actions
on S2IBIS3 and ICM, among other activities. Michael again thanked NESA's
Kathy Breda and Ed Sayre in addition to Lynne Green for their help in making
the PCB East IBIS Summit a success.
The presentations given at the summit can be found on the IBIS web at:
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct03/
DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION
Michael Mirmak reported that most activities relating to IBIS co-sponsorship
of DesignCon have been completed, although discussions regarding
refreshments still continue. Guy deBurgh confirmed that he is still
planning to attend and will be bringing the IBIS booth. He requested that
IBIS members contact him with any logo updates.
Bob Ross suggested that the booth would provide an excellent forum for
discussion and distribution of the ICM specification. Bob also mentioned
that lunch arrangements should be finalized as soon as possible; the expense
is likely to be relatively high (around $1000) due to the lunch being
provided at the convention site.
Lynne Green mentioned that an announcement of the first call for papers
should be arranged for mid-November. In addition, she and Michael agreed to
complete a written appeal to members for sponsorship contributions for
lunch at the summit.
EUROPEAN DATE SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross reported that he and Ralf Bruening of Zuken have been continuing to
plan for a European IBIS Summit at DATE 2004. The DATE Summit is currently
scheduled for Friday, February 20 in Paris. Eckhard Lenski noted that he
would have to inquire regarding his own attendance and asked whether any
IBIS officers might participate. Lynne Green may be able to attend
personally if her visit could be coordinated with other Cadence European
activities. Ralf is completing the logistical arrangements for the location,
refreshments, etc., but expects that rather large contributions would be
needed from several member companies to make the event happen.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS
Michael Mirmak reported that he had discussed the parser status with Atul
Agarwal, the parser developer. All 4.0 features have been included and only
two BUG reports remain to be resolved in the code. Atul is willing to
distribute a beta release with the latest updates once fixes to BUG68 and
BUG73 are decided upon by the Open Forum. If this beta meets with the Open
Forum's approval, this code would become the final 4.0 parser and all
IBISCHK4 activities could be closed.
Bob Ross noted a few small issues regarding the 4.0 features in the current
code, including extra spaces in package model names and a typographical error
in one warning report. These will be forwarded to Atul for inclusion in the
beta code.
The alpha version of IBISCHK4 is available for download:
http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta
A review of the BUG reports still to be addressed was conducted
during the Technical Discussion portion of the meeting (see below).
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that meetings continue every two weeks, with the next
meeting scheduled for November 4. Lynne noted that a status update from
the Committee was presented during the PCB East IBIS Summit.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that no new models have been received by the committee
since the last meeting.
S2IBIS3
Michael Mirmak mentioned that a full update of S2IBIS3 developments was
provided in a formal presentation by Ambrish Varma at the PCB East IBIS
Summit.
S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from:
http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm
Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged.
Ambrish will distribute a call for feedback on the latest code
using the reflector.
IBIS ICM STATUS
Lynne Green confirmed that an alpha test version of the ICM 1.0 parser will
be available in early November. Michael Mirmak reported that a BIRD and BUG
filing procedure and text are being created for ICM, with much the same
format. Bob Ross suggested that additional web subdirectories would be
required to store the filed reports. Names such as IBIRD and IBUG are being
considered for the new report templates.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
No new issues.
BIRD83: SERIES ELEMENT CLARIFICATIONS
Michael Mirmak reported that, outside of formatting suggestions by Bob Ross,
no comments have been received on BIRD83. Bob Ross noted that a technical
issue remains: if the column header "function_table_groups" is sufficient to
require the use of the [Series Switch Groups] keyword, or whether the header
and appropriate data must both be present. Michael agreed that this should
be clarified in the text, but only after the behavior of the parser is
confirmed.
Bob added that the original text that the BIRD changes should be noted in
the BIRD itself. In addition, the change marks are usually rendered as "|*"
as opposed to "*|" in most BIRDs. Michael noted that there were no explicit
links between [Series Switch Groups], [Series MOSFET] and the [On] and [Off]
keywords. Bob suggested that the specification language implies that, if no
limit or relationship is explicitly noted, none is intended.
The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Michael Mirmak. A
BIRD 83.1 version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for
discussion at the next Open Forum meeting.
BIRD84: DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATIONS
Arpad Muranyi noted that BIRD84 consists of two portions. The first, a
clarification of the subparameters allowed in the top-level and scheduled
models, has generated no comments. The second part, defining "event" and
describing how "events" trigger scheduled models, has generated one set of
comments on the IBIS reflector which Arpad found ambiguous. Despite Arpad's
efforts, no additional information has been forthcoming from the comments'
author.
Bob Ross mentioned that the text describing events as not being held to the
next clock cycle conflicts with the ASCII drawing provided. Treatment of
overclocked buffers was never intended by the original [Driver Schedule]
keyword definition. John Angulo also noted that a one-sentence definition
of "event" may not be enough to clarify its use. A cautionary note
regarding [Driver Schedule] and overclocked buffers may be necessary.
The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Arpad. A BIRD 84.1
version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at
the next Open Forum meeting.
BIRD85: Slew Time Clarifications
John Angulo introduced BIRD85, which addresses the use of the [Ramp]
keyword within [External Model]. The BIRD alters the interpretation of
BIRD75.8 to make [Ramp] a requirement for [External Model]s; however, the
data under [Ramp] in this case may be collected under conditions
different than those recommended by the "Notes on Data Derivation"
elsewhere in the Specification. The [Ramp] data would be used in the
[External Model] context to improve simulation efficiency and crosstalk
estimation by providing an initial timestep target to the simulator.
Michael Mirmak observed that, while the additional use of [Ramp] data
was necessary for [External Model] simulation efficiency, models were
already being created which inappropriately normalize [Ramp] data or
otherwise misinterpret the specification requirements. Lynne Green
commented that, while the load for [Ramp] must be resistive, the text
language should be tightened to clarify how the loading is different from
that explained in the data derivation notes. Bob Ross noted that the
word "slew" was used without definition and that the Rload usage and
voltage termination should be explained more fully.
The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by John. A BIRD 85.1
version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at
the next Open Forum meeting.
IBIS VERSION 4.1 FIRST READING
Michael Mirmak announced the first official "reading" of the IBIS 4.1
specification, and called for comments. None were issued at the meeting.
Bob Ross reiterated his suggestion that a new link to the 4.1 text be added
to the web site. In addition, he suggested that the text of the revised
BIRDs described above be added to the draft 4.1 document as soon as possible,
in addition to BIRD 82.2. Further, there are several references in the
current 4.1 text to the 80 character per line limit which was recently
expanded to 120 characters. Explicit references to the 80 character limit
should be removed.
Michael Mirmak suggested that the term "deprecated" be added to non-preferred
keywords such as [Driver Schedule] and [TT], similar to the format used by
the W3 Consortium in describing HTML. Further, he suggested that a 4.1
"tree" showing the hierarchy of keywords, be added to the 4.1 specification,
similar to that used for ICM 1.0. Bob agreed that both might be useful,
but that they should be deferred until the 4.2 specification.
A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web. Both an
ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at:
http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/
IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
John Angulo reported that he had written a recommendation for addressing the
problems reported in BUG68 and had revised his recommendation for BUG73.
BUG68 is addressed by forcing the parser to ignore small differences in the
I-V curve result data table. BUG73 is addressed by ignoring non-monotonic
I-V table data points except those closest in value to the V-T data table
endpoint. Treatment of ECL models will need detailed discussion in a
future Open Forum meeting.
Both updated code fragments have been provided to Atul Agarwal for inclusion
in the beta parser release.
NEXT MEETING:
The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for November 14
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time. Votes regarding the
approval of BIRD83, BIRD84 and BIRD85 are scheduled.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046
michael.mirmak@intel.com
Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S FM6-45
1900 Prairie City Rd.
Folsom, CA 95630
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475
rrwolff@micron.com
Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc.
8000 S. Federal Way
Mail Stop: 1-711
Boise, ID 83707-0006
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
John_angulo@mentor.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
majordomo@eda.org
In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>
In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>
Help and other commands:
help
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS
models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic
Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis/directory.html file on eda.org for more information on
previous discussions and results.
* Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
| help
| subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Tue Oct 28 2003 - 14:57:46 PST