RE: [IBIS] AMS tastes great and leaves your teeth shiny white, too!

Todd,

Regarding the humor, as I told you in my private mail,
you didn't offend me, I just felt more uncomfortable
than I would have liked to because of what I wrote in
my last posting.  That's all, case closed, we are still
friends...

Regarding the rest of the subject here, I hate to sound
like a broken record, but if you agree that "standardizing"
the EFGH elements in IBIS may be problematic, what do you
think about the idea of implementing them in *-AMS, invoke
them with the [External Circuit], and then use [External
Circuit] for macromodeling around the IBIS 2.1 base model
which may be in another [External Circuit] (this is already
posted as part of my presentations on the IBIS website)?
The users of these wouldn't have to know what is inside the
EFGH *-AMS code, they would only need to invoke them, just
like in SPICE.

I kind of like this, because it is not interfering with
the general direction (if we have any) towards the long
term solution of *-AMS, yet allows the same and perhaps
even more than what we know of as EFGH elements
because we can put any feature into the *-AMS EFGH
elements, or we can add features to them as the need
comes, since the AMS code is available to anyone at
any time.  Also, this could be done IMMEDIATELY as far
as the IBIS spec is concerned, because we wouldn't have
to change anything in it.

Arpad
=========================================================
 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh)
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 7:05 AM
To: 'ibis'
Subject: RE: [IBIS] AMS tastes great and leaves your teeth shiny white, too!

Arpad,

1) Geez, I'm really, really sorry.  I completely understand your position
and feelings, and you'll never hear me bring up the IBIS prayer again.   My
first point wasn't meant to be an allusion of any kind.  I was pointing out
that you've done as much work with AMS for SI as anyone, and if you're
convinced it has the capabilities to go forward, I'm inclined to agree.  I
was simply saying you're in the lead with modeling experience at this point
- nothing more.

2/3/4) It's a conundrum, isn't it?  We fix the present, we delay the future.
We focus on the future, we have trouble getting by in the present.  I don't
have the answer here; it's a balancing act we have to sound out as we go
forward.

I was intrigued by last night's discussion of EFGH sources.  I agree we
can't end up endorsing a specific SPICE version ... so the question is, is
there any set of sources we can reliably take as common?  Macromodeling
could still have value without controlled sources, but I'm inclined to agree
that it probably isn't worth the effort without them.  I think we need to
figure out whether there are a viable set of controlled sources we can rely
on or not, and go from there.

Going forward, I think we need to continue to look at the "big" picture in
modeling - the combination of language, model development tools,
documentation and EDA tool support.  As you point out, it does us little
good to define a standard if EDA vendors do what they want anyway.
Similarly, a great language and simulator does us little good if few people
can develop models for it.  It's taken quite a while to get IBIS in its
present state - if we're going to move toward AMS, we will repeatedly have
to ask ourselves the question "what does this mean to the average user?"

My apologies again for my inappropriate humor.  It was never meant to offend
- it was only meant to highlight your leadership in a lighthearted way.
Your contributions to SI are welcomed and sincerely appreciated, and I was
just trying to point that out.

Todd.

Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719
email:twesterh@cisco.com
ph: 978-936-2149
============================================

"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

- Mark Twain

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