================================================================================ IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ibis.org_interconnect-5Fwip_&d=DwIGAg&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=DcQR-qLpQg5lIreuM6-NYECRIAFXt268PRNS5WO043M&m=dJ5sHCu5XYxpb1xsjnlLwU1QZi7I6vO-mr8er97DO5PLc4ffFaVcuL9eltu_5FRg&s=4lXg3FquGTN0QwRoP3QW0EHZfB9VkkfUTX6U67BSSGU&e= Mailing list: ibis-interconnect@freelists.org Archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_archive_ibis-2Dinterconn_&d=DwIGAg&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=DcQR-qLpQg5lIreuM6-NYECRIAFXt268PRNS5WO043M&m=dJ5sHCu5XYxpb1xsjnlLwU1QZi7I6vO-mr8er97DO5PLc4ffFaVcuL9eltu_5FRg&s=XYrUDslnKVwUA8_VJqrNvhTFTbuRvl8nHxy8L-dH2Ew&e= ================================================================================ Attendees from February 8, 2023 Meeting (* means attended at least using audio) ANSYS Curtis Clark Intel Corp. Michael Mirmak* Michael Brownell Keysight Technologies Ming Yan Marvell Steve Parker MathWorks Walter Katz* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield* Randy Wolff* Siemens EDA Arpad Muranyi* ST Microelectronics Aurora Sanna Teraspeed Labs Bob Ross* University of Illinois Jose Schutt-Aine Zuken USA Lance Wang* Michael Mirmak convened the meeting. No patents were declared. Justin Butterfield took minutes. Review of Minutes: - Michael called for review of the minutes from the August 10, 2022 meeting. Michael displayed the minutes. Michael noticed an AR that was not captured related to finding the original Touchstone document. Walter Katz agreed having the document would be useful. Arpad Muranyi moved to approve the minutes. Walter seconded. The minutes were approved without objection. Review of ARs: - Arpad Muranyi to give an example of the physical connectivity needed for EMD automation [AR]. - Arpad stated this has to do with the header section in the Touchstone files. He was planning to bring up an example of what is needed to create an EMD. Arpad previously had present examples of existing port naming notes from extraction tools. Walter previously had a proposal on the port naming. Walter suggested to brainstorm on the problem we are trying to solve. Michael stated we can keep this open. - Arpad and Randy Wolff to review the intermingled text between Touchstone 1 and Touchstone 2 sections. - Arpad stated some work was done in this area. Randy commented that we have a draft 10 with TSIRDs 3 and 4 included. He suggested to review this in more detail. There is another draft separating Touchstone 1 and Touchstone 2 that needs to be discussed. Arpad suggested to close this AR, and we can assign a new AR if further work is needed. - Michael noted there were several documents that were not yet posted to the IBIS Interconnect website archive. He has sent these to Steve Parker to post on the website. Randy noted one of the documents should be labeled as an ISSIRD. Michael noted this document is related to cascading S-parameters in the W-element format. He will correct the file name. - Michael to check with Synopsys on permission for using the W-element S-parameter feature and what they can share on the algorithm details and model restrictions [AR]. - Michael noted that Ted Mido replied that there should not be any legal issues, but there are some technical issues. Ted suggested to support the node map format which was not part of the original proposal. Randy asked if this was similar to port mapping. Michael noted this is a syntax to indicate the order of the ports and map them to near end and far end. Ted did not provide many algorithm details. Michael asked if this is something we want to follow up on. Randy replied if we plan to use non-integer values, it would be good to have these details. Michael suggested to keep this open. - Michael to look for the original Touchstone manual [AR]. - Michael suggested to keep this open. Opens: - Michael reviewed the agenda topics. Arpad suggested to order the topics based on priority. Arpad suggested the port naming and Touchstone 1 and Touchstone 2 should be a priority. Randy suggested the ISSIRD could be worked on as we get the necessary information. He also suggested to keep working on the separation draft since that is gating the other work. Michael agreed the separation draft should be the priority. He was not sure if the separation was considered in the outline. Bob Ross noted there are organizational details to be addressed in the separation document. Randy noted this is the intent of the outline. Bob commented the questions related to the outline are the Touchstone 3 features and what makes a file Touchstone 3 if you only want port mapping but not pole-residue. Michael asked if the encapsulation idea is how one could minimally update a Touchstone 1 file to add the Touchstone 3 features such as port mapping. Randy replied the idea was to wrap the Touchstone 1 data in keywords. Michael asked if model makers are willing to edit the Touchstone file or simply reference the Touchstone 1 file. Randy thought this could be useful as port mapping is one feature users really want. Michael asked if we have this encapsulation feature documented. Randy replied we have not. We have only separated the sections related to Touchstone 1 and Touchstone 2 and cleaned up the issues highlighted in the TSIRDs. Michael asked if we want to add a bin list item for the encapsulation syntax format. Randy replied, yes, assuming everyone agrees with that approach. Arpad noted one issue is the changing of the parsers, where tools have not updated their parsers to read new versions of Touchstone. Michael noted the Option line removal is one additional topic. Bob noted that Option line removal needs to be discussed. Arpad commented that it should not be a concern if we have the encapsulation feature. Arpad asked if the W-element S-parameter cascading is on the agenda list. Bob suggested that our solution should be compatible with HSPICE. Randy agreed. Michael noted that there might be some parameters that HSPICE supports that IBIS-ISS does not support. This could cause the results to be different. Arpad noted that S-parameter simulations can be different between tools. Arpad asked about the legal permission for all features might want. Michael will ask Ted on the legal permission for all the desired features [AR]. Michael asked if we want to review the separation draft in the next meeting. Bob stated the outline undercuts the separation draft. Michael asked if we want the separation draft to have duplication. Randy replied having Touchstone 1 separated allows for the encapsulation feature. Michael suggested to have the separation draft take precedence. Randy suggested to send these documents out again with the highlighted sections from Arpad. Randy will send out again the latest separation draft [AR]. Arpad moved to adjourn. Randy seconded. Next Meeting: The next meeting will be February 15, 2023. ================================================================================ Bin List: 1. Touchstone 3 2. Pole-residue support for Touchstone 3. Port naming