================================================================================ IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ibis.org_interconnect-5Fwip_&d=DwIGAg&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=DcQR-qLpQg5lIreuM6-NYECRIAFXt268PRNS5WO043M&m=yPA6dN9GUnEHpYQSk2rKLqV3gOLXxwSsqww2zP6YhntBe-OGqzNeSB1mqFFdpEXv&s=ktj09NwHjVw-9I5ELmcV2mgVs-IRbF5OhVP2c7BDmkc&e= Mailing list: ibis-interconnect@freelists.org Archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.freelists.org_archive_ibis-2Dinterconn_&d=DwIGAg&c=nKjWec2b6R0mOyPaz7xtfQ&r=DcQR-qLpQg5lIreuM6-NYECRIAFXt268PRNS5WO043M&m=yPA6dN9GUnEHpYQSk2rKLqV3gOLXxwSsqww2zP6YhntBe-OGqzNeSB1mqFFdpEXv&s=QEIOtUhZFeeJaZLjQwSXVnAYXtukquY_hwEnjjPf0uA&e= ================================================================================ Attendees from February 9, 2022 Meeting (* means attended at least using audio) ANSYS Curtis Clark Intel Corp. Michael Mirmak* Marvell Steve Parker MathWorks Walter Katz* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield* Randy Wolff* Siemens EDA Arpad Muranyi* ST Microelectronics Aurora Sanna Teraspeed Labs Bob Ross* University of Illinois Jose Schutt-Aine Zuken USA Lance Wang* Michael Mirmak convened the meeting. No patents were declared. Justin Butterfield took minutes. Review of Minutes: - Michael called for review of the minutes from the February 2, 2022 meeting. Michael displayed the minutes. Lance Wang moved to approve the minutes. Arpad Muranyi seconded. The minutes were approved without objection. Review of ARs: - Michael to send an email to the reflector asking for EDA tool vendor feedback on the pole-residue format. - Michael reported there are some responses to discuss. - EDA vendors to provide a pole-residue format example from their tool if allowed, but at least the requirements of what is needed for their tool. - Done. Opens: - Michael asked if we can remove the survey results discussion from the Bin List. Arpad agreed. - Michael stated there was some discussion about the ISSRD process in the IBIS Open Forum. He would like to have some discussion on this here. Randy Wolff agreed. Arpad asked about the S-element change technical discussion. Michael replied he plans a document describing the technical change. Bob Ross asked if this would be part of Touchstone. Randy replied this would be specific to IBIS-ISS. Discussion: Pole-Residue Format Discussion: Lance had provided feedback from the Zuken R&D group, and he sent an email to Michael with their comments. Michael asked if we can convert all of the format types in Touchstone to pole-residue. Lance replied the process in Zuken is to convert the S-parameter into a pole-residue type format internally in the tool. Randy suggested we can force the pole-residue format to real-imaginary when we define it. Bob stated, if we allow the magnitude-angle format, we could run into issues. Walter Katz asked if "zeros" appears in the document rather than "residues". Arpad stated that the document from Vladimir explains the difference. The group agreed to use "residues" rather "zeros". Michael summarized his interpretation of the email from Zuken. As long as the pole-residue format is well specified, they do not have any additional requirements. Walter noted each Sij will have a poles-residue set, but the number of poles and residues could be different for each Sij. If you have lots of discontinuities in the channel, you could have a lot of poles and residues. Arpad commented the number of ports is independent form the order of the model. Michael stated we have been focusing on the pole-residue format to reduce the file size. He asked if we are saying that the size reduction may vary. Walter stated this is correct, and the number of poles and residues depends on the complexity of the channel and on the desired accuracy of the model fit. Arpad noted a lower order model could smooth out the higher frequency characteristics. Walter stated we can define the format, and one requirement is that there should be a pole at infinity. Randy asked if this would apply to active networks. Arpad noted we do support active S-parameters in IBIS. Arpad reviewed Vladimir's pole-residue format document. At the end of the document, there is an example with a 4-port model. Arpad noted we would want to convert the format into a keyword style to make it easier to read. Bob commented the delay element is added to this format, which is unique. Arpad stated it is a simplification. Bob asked about the order of the ports. Arpad replied this could be taken care of with a proper keyword structure. Michael asked if there are any additional requirements. Arpad asked how to consider active components. Bob asked about the reciprocal requirement. Arpad replied this is a separate issue. Bob suggested we should support 'S', 'Y', and 'Z' matrix formats. Arpad stated that the proposed format from Vladimir does support this. Bob asked if IEEE P370 also has a pole-residue format. Michael has reached out. Their focus is on how the data is collected and the details about the lab setup or simulation extraction. They plan to have a header with this information. Walter commented they use the comments to describe the setup in a standard way. Arpad asked about the port names. Walter replied, in the IEEE P370 format, they give the port names in the comments. Michael would like to consider the requirements for pole-residue format closed for now. Michael asked about the rescaling proposal. Walter asked if this is regarding the S-parameter scaling in the W-element format. Michael suggested to remove this from the bin list. Walter noted in Touchstone 1 we had to start a new line for the port, while in Touchstone 2 we could break up the frequency data in multiple lines. He would like to clarify this. Michael stated we can add this to the bin list. Arpad motioned to adjourn. Randy seconded. The meeting adjourned. Next Meeting: The next meeting will be February 16. ================================================================================ Bin List: 1. Touchstone 3 2. Pole-residue support for Touchstone 3. Clarification BIRD drafts from ATM 4. TSIRD(4) 5. ISSRD process 6. Frequency data in multiple lines