From: Mirmak, Michael Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:46 PM To: IBIS-Interconnect (ibis-interconn@freelists.org) Subject: Minutes, March 13, 2013 IBIS-Interconnect Task Group and March 20, 2013 Agenda ====================================================================== IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP MEETING http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ Mailing list: ibis-interconn@freelists.org ====================================================================== Next meeting: March 20, 2013 8 AM US Pacific Time Agenda: Attendance Call for Patents Agenda and Opens Review Si2 Specification Status Discussion and Vote on EMD as Focus of Task Group Work Next Meetings’ Schedule/Agenda • Mar. 27 • April 3 For international numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. Note: in case of issues with Lync we will use the WebEx noted at the bottom of this message ......................................................................................................................................... Join online meeting https://meet.intel.com/michael.mirmak/QZ193W0C First online meeting? [!OC([1033])!] ......................................................................................................................................... <--- Reservationless Bridge – Do not edit or remove --- 916-356-2663, 8-356-2663, Bridge: 2, Passcode: 8625431 Speed dialer: inteldialer://2,8625431 -----------------------------------------------------------------> Note: in case of issues with Lync we will use the WebEx noted at the bottom of this message ====================================================================== Attendees, Mar. 13 Agilent Technologies Radek Biernacki* Altera David Banas ANSYS [Luis Armenta], Steve Pytel* Cadence Design Systems Brad Brim*, Ambrish Varma Intel Michael Mirmak* Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield*, Randy Wolff* QLogic Jason Zhou Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz* Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross* Minutes No patents were declared. Brad Brim reported on Si2’s interconnect specification activities (formal title, “CPIP” or “Power Delivery Interconnect Specification”): the review period has expired but a vote is still needed for approval. The delay could be a month or longer. Walter Katz asked whether this is limited to silicon, silicon/package, etc. Brad replied that Si2 is a silicon initiative, and the specification applies to signals and power for chips/packages/boards. This is similar to MCP. In response to a question from Bob Ross, Brad noted that there are about 18 members of the committee, with about 40% EDA vendors and 60% IC vendors. Michael Mirmak asked whether there be a request that IBIS incorporate the Si2 specification. Brad noted that the value of EMD is in its extended nets and internal connections. Michael asked whether there are any updates on S-parameters, per David Banas’s presentation. Walter noted that the ATM group addressed in a previous meeting. Bob Ross asked whether the S-parameters assume a unit step or an edge rate. Walter noted that his presentation covers this, adds that the S- parameter constrains the behavior of the edge rate put into it. Bob and Radek Biernacki disagreed. Michael asked whether the S-parameter issue has anything to do with EMD or Interconnect work. Walter stated that it’s the IC vendor’s choice where to draw the line between the on-die interconnect and the buffer. Arpad Muranyi stated that the S-parameter treatment doesn't impact how the sections are connected. Radek stated that we need to define, more precisely, for the model makers, where the signals come from, where to partition the circuitry, and how to characterize it. Michael asked whether this is an interconnect issue. Should this be an ATM topic? Bob replied that our assumption is that this needs to be in the specification. The ATM group is overloaded. Walter responded that it is trivial to write up various ways to set up the impulse response, while it is impossible to handle traditional/legacy IBIS at both ends with this approach. Steve Pytel suggested that we have limited bandwidth and that this is properly an ATM topic. Michael stated that, from previous discussions, the sense of the committee is EMD as a direction for the task group, and asked for objections. Steve noted that, on EMD, not a single customer of his is asking for this and registered an objection. Steve noted that that the approach is generally proprietary, similar to what Brad was suggesting. Walter stated that EMD consists of a well-defined set of requirements, handling on-die interconnect, etc. Steve suggested that a larger audience is not yet participating in development. Michael asked whether any specific alternatives exist or can be proposed. Brad noted that internal connectivity is handled by EMD. Randy Wolff stated that, for DDR4, Micron has shut down providing EBD models for customers; the only choice today is to provide SPICE models. Micron would like that to be something like an EMD model with IBIS-ISS inside of it, in a convenient format. Arpad noted that ATM looked into this during the writing of BIRD125; EBD and the IBIS packaging syntax are very similar (using IBIS-ISS instead of fork/endfork). Could we make a simple change to EBD to accommodate this? Walter stated that EBD mentions “board”, while EMD supersedes EBD. Randy added that EBD and EMD are different enough. Arpad asked whether a simpler solution would function, changing to IBIS EBD rather than EMD. Michael asked whether the team is making the perfect the enemy of the good. In this case, a real customer with a real need has been identified. Walter added that, under EMD, interposers and stacked DIMMs are handled. Xilinx, Altera, and Teraspeed were consulted and EMD satisfies them. Steve stated that the team should not want to adopt a solution that doesn’t address industry needs. He has seen an internal set of requirements, some of which is satisfied by EMD. The polled customers mentioned represent less than 1% of the community. Walter made a motion for a vote in the next meeting on EMD as direction for committee. He added that the Friday Open Forum meeting should include an appeal for participation and study of EMD drafts. Randy Wolff seconded the motion, adding that EMD should be considered a starting point for work; technical content could change as work continues. There were no objections. For, the next meeting, a vote has been scheduled on whether the Task Group should focus on EMD development. ====================================================================== In case of Lync issues only, we will switch to WebEx as noted below. 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