From: Mirmak, Michael Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:33 PM To: IBIS-Interconnect (ibis-interconn@freelists.org) Subject: Minutes, Dec. 5 IBIS-Interconnect Task Group and Dec. 12 Agenda ====================================================================== IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP MEETING http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ Mailing list: ibis-interconn@freelists.org ====================================================================== Next meeting: Dec. 12, 2012 8 AM US Pacific Daylight Time Agenda: - Attendance - Call for Patents - Agenda and Opens - Brief Update on Discussions with Si2 and Related Planning - Die-to-die Needs and EMD - Next Meetings’ Schedule/Agenda: Dec. 19 and 2013 Meetings For international numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. ......................................................................................................................................... Join online meeting https://meet.intel.com/michael.mirmak/QZ193W0C First online meeting? [!OC([1033])!] ......................................................................................................................................... <--- Reservationless Bridge – Do not edit or remove --- 916-356-2663, 8-356-2663, Bridge: 2, Passcode: 8625431 Speed dialer: inteldialer://2,8625431 -----------------------------------------------------------------> Note: in case of issues with Lync we will use the WebEx noted at the bottom of this message ====================================================================== Attendees, Dec. 5 Agilent Technologies Radek Biernacki* ANSYS Luis Armenta*, Steve Pytel* Cadence Design Systems Brad Brim* Intel Michael Mirmak* Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield*, Randy Wolff* Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz* Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross* Minutes No patents were declared. Michael Mirmak raised the issue of Micron difficulties with the Freelists system. Micron subscribers appear to be receiving mails now. Steve Pytel reviewed slides describing key topologies any general interconnect solution must address. He noted that “MCP” is generally the Cadence/Sigrity approach, while “CPM” is the ANSYS/Apache solution. Traditional IBIS I-V curves are used for wide I/O, memory cube, DDR4 (and traditional IBIS is mostly used for memory today), and these are areas where power+signal modeling is critical. Regardless of specifics, a netlist is a netlist; there’s an industry need to align physical locations with automation and netlist data. Walter Katz commented that the current interconnect-related IBIS solutions don’t do anything for a specific commercial simulator, such as Synopsys HSPICE. Most commercial tools support non-encrypted HSPICE-style netlists as inputs. He added that, on Si2’s Open 3D, he is assuming they will end up with a subcircuit equivalent. There’s no reason why an IBIS standard can’t support that. Bob Ross asked whether the task group can find a draft specification on the web. Brad Brim responded that he happens to be working on the draft specification, adding that Si2 is particular about IP protection and has specific rules about what can be publicly discussed. He noted that MCP, CPP and CPIP are all related at some level. He stated that a request had been filed with Michael to try to tie the work of Si2 and IBIS together; Michael to follow up. Steve observed that EMD as written does not appear to cover automated post-layout solutions. He asked whether a netlist-based solution is going to make it easier to address post-layout needs in the Interconnect Task Group’s work. Walter responded that netlist interconnect between buffers is independent of the buffers used. Steve agreed, noting that if the interconnect is defined by the buffer type, they should work together. Walter suggested that if the buffer, for now, is the die pad, you can do frequency-domain analysis or time-domain analysis, independent of the interconnect. SerDes convolution or memory transient circuit simulation can be performed. He complimented the presentation, adding that EMD is designed to do what was described, but disagreeing with the statement that EMD doesn’t support die-to-system automated post-layout connections. He ended by noting that end-to-end connections using pin names is similar to EBD. Steve replied that having optional line for X,Y location is critical. Michael noted that he will discuss whether Si2’s proposals can be discussed as part of the Interconnect meetings and will update the team in the next meeting. ====================================================================== In case of Lync issues only, we will switch to WebEx as noted below. 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