================================================================================ IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP http://www.ibis.org/interconnect_wip/ Mailing list: ibis-interconnect@freelists.org Archives at http://www.freelists.org/archive/ibis-interconn/ ================================================================================ Attendees from December 8 Meeting (* means attended at least using audio) ANSYS Curtis Clark Cadence Design Systems Bradley Brim Cisco David Siadat Intel Corp. Michael Mirmak* Keysight Technologies Radek Biernacki, Ming Yan Mentor, A Siemens Business Arpad Muranyi* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield*, Randy Wolff SAE ITC Maureen Lemankiewicz, Logen Johnson Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz*, Mike LaBonte* Teraspeed Labs Bob Ross* University of Aveiro in Portugal Wael Dghais Michael Mirmak convened the meeting. No patents were declared. Justin Butterfield took minutes. Review of Minutes: - Michael called for review of the minutes from the December 6 meeting. Arpad Muranyi moved to approve the minutes. Mike LaBonte seconded. The minutes were approved without objection. Review of ARs: - Bob and Walter Katz to provide a one page summary of their proposals. - Michael reported that this is done. Opens: - Arpad stated that item 15 in the requirements list of BIRD189.5 requires not mixing of the legacy package models. He commented that we need to clarify this statement and how it relates to Groups and Sets. Michael suggested that this a question we need to ask as we review other topics such as Groups and Sets as well as a separate discussion topic. Bob noted that legacy package models are still suggested, but the Group is intended to be brought in by itself. The intent was not to allow mixing Groups and Sets. Arpad commented that there are some details to work out on the conditions, as you could have pins not covered by the Group but those pins are covered in a legacy package model. Bob stated that this was not the intent. Interconnect Model Groups and Sets: Michael asked Walter to go through his summary first. Walter shared the summary email of his Groups and Sets proposal. Walter noted that an Interconnect Model interface is declared at the pin, pad, or buffer. He defined a Set as a list of Interconnect Models that have a logical association, and there are no rules on this association, but he gave some examples. He defined a Group as a list of Sets. He noted that the [Component] can have multiple Groups, and the EDA tool selects one. He proposed to have two types of Groups: Component and Bare-die. The Bare-die implies that Groups are buffer to pad only. He described the rules surrounding his proposal for both signals and rails. Arpad commented that we still need more discussion on when to use the legacy package model. Walter thought there could be some combinations which are not covered in the bullet list. Walter commented that for both proposals he came up with a proposed Group usage report format, which could be a useful way of understanding the proposals. The report describes the model interfaces for each pin in a Group. Bob shared the bullet list summary of his proposal for Groups and Sets. Th difference in his proposal is that the Group assumes a logical association in regards to broadband models. He breaks Groups down by the boundaries into [Pad Pin Group], [Buffer Pad Group], and [Full Path Group]. He noted this approach gives better error checking for missing models. Pin Mapping is used to create shorted paths for rails. This is one way of being compatible with existing models, where there is no difference between the buffer and pad interface. Bob noted the buffer to pad is the true on die group. We could allow this Group type to short to the pin. He added a [PDN Group], but noted that it might not be something we want to include. Bob stated he does not want to rely on shorting by default. He is also concerned that if we open the door to mixing legacy package models that could create issues with lots of combinations. Arpad commented that he had sent out some questions in response to Bob's email. Bob commented that there are details to work out for legacy package models. Arpad is also concerned that there could a need for model makers to write dummy models with shorts to force the interfaces to be uniform. Bob stated that if you bring in the PDN pins, bus_label can be used. Walter commented that today people make interconnect models that are from pin to pad for signals, and pin to pad for PDN. And, we have a request to model the one decoupling capacitance which would be on the die only. Walter stated that this is the way models are created today, and we should support it. Walter stated he plans to submit a motion to adopt his proposal. Arpad stated he would like to second, but he would like to have more discussion to resolve some of the details. Mike agreed with Arpad and pointed out that the requirements 12 and 15 in BIRD189.5 are contradictory to Walter's proposal and need to be revised. Bob commented that there are also issues with the legacy package models. Michael asked if Arpad would like to second or not. Arpad stated that he prefers Walter's approach, but there are details to resolve. Walter agreed that this the direction we want to go. Bob would like to not decide on PDN only models and Aggressor only rules as part of this decision. Walter moved to select his proposal on Sets and Groups as the direction for BIRD189.5. Arpad seconded the motion. Bob objected to the motion. The roll call vote tally was: Intel - Abstain Mentor - Yes Micron - Yes SiSoft - Yes Teraspeed Labs - No The roll call vote concluded with a tally of Yes – 3, No – 1, Abstain – 1. The motion passed. Michael asked Walter and Arpad to work on writing Walter's Groups and Sets proposal into BIRD189.5 [AR]. Bob suggested to use draft11 from the website as the baseline. Walter pointed out that we need to change "resistor" to "resistance" for the Unused_port_termination parameter. The next meeting is scheduled for Wednesday December 13. Mike moved to adjourn. Walter seconded. The meeting adjourned without objection. Task List BIRD189.5 editorial additions/changes to be completed: 1. File_TS0 and File_TS referencing warning language. 2. Remove the word "reference" from the IBIS-ISS examples.