====================================================================== IBIS INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP MEETING http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ Mailing list: ibis-interconn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ====================================================================== Next meeting: Jan. 9, 2013 8 AM US Pacific Daylight Time Agenda: - Attendance - Call for Patents - Agenda and Opens - Motion from Walter Katz (see below) - Interconnect Recommendations on [Model] Input Options: Analog, Digital or "numbers"? o Schedule vote for alternatives to Model? - On-die Modeling Follow-up (as needed) - Next Meetings' Schedule/Agenda: o Jan. 16 o Jan. 23 For international numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. ......................................................................................................................................... Join online meeting https://meet.intel.com/michael.mirmak/QZ193W0C First online meeting? [!OC([1033])!] ......................................................................................................................................... <--- Reservationless Bridge - Do not edit or remove --- 916-356-2663, 8-356-2663, Bridge: 2, Passcode: 8625431 Speed dialer: inteldialer://2,8625431 -----------------------------------------------------------------> Note: in case of issues with Lync we will use the WebEx noted at the bottom of this message ====================================================================== Attendees, Dec. 19 Agilent Technologies Radek Biernacki* Altera David Banas* ANSYS Luis Armenta*, Steve Pytel Cadence Design Systems Brad Brim*, Ambrish Varma* Intel Michael Mirmak* Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi* Micron Technology Justin Butterfield*, Randy Wolff* Qlogic Jason Zhou* Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz* Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross* Minutes No patents were declared. No opens were raised. Michael Mirmak presented a brief overview of the pending BIRDs that are affected by ATM Task Group discussions and relate to interconnect. Arpad Muranyi noted that BIRD152 is missing from the list and ties to recent discussions. Arpad also noted that BIRD125 may have to wait for disposition, as it controls how a package is inserted between the pins and pads. An Si2 specification may affect or supersede this. Michael stated that EDA vendors might be in trouble without External Model or External Circuit under this interpretation. Arpad and Radek Biernacki agreed. Walter Katz stated that External Circuit/Model presents a significant burden for EDA vendors and the industry. He asked which EDA vendors explicitly support these keywords. External Model was stated as supported by representatives of Mentor Graphics and Cadence. No responses were noted regarding External Circuit. Walter reviewed his on-die modeling presentation. He noted that the major problem is that no distributed interconnect solution exists in IBIS 5.1 This can be handled through Touchstone combined with IBIS-AMI and/or IBIS-ISS. Arpad added that External Circuit can be cascaded and address part of this; External Model cannot. David Banas asked whether on-die interconnect could be made part of the package model. There was general agreement that this was possible. David also asked whether all of the model that used complex on-die interconnect assumed it was passive and linear. Walter responded by noting that Touchstone would be needed to model T-coils, commonly used today to reduce device capacitance. Brad Brim asked whether only the non-LTI part would be within the buffer. Walter responded this was correct; that the buffer could be LTI or non-LTI. He added that for IBIS-AMI, the legacy model must be LTI. Risetime is totally academic for SerDes designs. The shape of the V-t curve is very high frequency and does not survive the package model. David suggested cases where the full swing does change in slope, even after 6 inches of interconnect. Walter responded that he wanted to ensure on-die interconnect was actually modeled as interconnect. Michael Mirmak asked whether traditional IBIS is really the barrier to successful integration of new package and interconnect features; its assumptions are numerous and significant. An expanded C_comp definition, as was proposed several years ago, could address the same issues as External Circuit and IBIS-AMI+Touchstone address as solutions. Walter suggested that industry wants crosstalk to be represented, including groups of pins and buffer pads. Arpad suggested that BIRD 116 and 145, using External Circuit, address this. James Zhou asked why LTI representation is needed or assumed for legacy [Model]s with AMI. For a receiver, at least, the clamps are not LTI. Walter replied that the analog channel is represented by an impulse response, which is necessarily assuming LTI behavior. Michael suggested that motions for votes can always be entertained, if needed to resolve choices about organizational direction. Offline discussions were recommended, but the meeting adjourned until after the new year. After the meeting, Walter Katz moved via the reflector that the IBIS Interconnect Task Group approve the following statement: "The IBIS Interconnect committee recommends the Open Forum approve the following motion: The Open Forum request[s] that the IBIS ATM and Interconnect working groups proceed with developing a new EMD Standard for .emd files in general accordance with http://www.eda.org/ibis/adhoc/interconnect/EMD.docx, and a BIRD in general accordance with http://www.eda.org/ibis/adhoc/interconnect/EMD.docx for .ibs package interconnect modeling and for .ibs on-die interconnect modeling, in lieu of BIRDs 116, 117, 118, 125, 129 and 145." ====================================================================== In case of Lync issues only, we will switch to WebEx as noted below. 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