DATE: September 19, 1995 SUBJECT: 9/15/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS: AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley* Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar* Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar* HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli IBM Jay Diepenbrock INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi, Derrick Duehren Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross* Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz* Quad Design Jon Powell* Quantic Labs Mike Ventham* Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen* Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer*, Sung Oh* Zuken-Redac John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS: ARPA Randy Harr Anacad Steffen Rochel Ansoft Henri Maramis Atmel Corporation Dan Terry Cadlab Ralf Bruning CFI Ron Christopher* Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz EIA Patti Rusher* High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Arthur Wong North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang Symmetry Martin Walker Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu (Independent) Bob Ward In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 10/6/95 (303) 633-2197 1-308636 No pass code All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Ron Christopher of CFI and working as an independent consultant on a ten- year roadmap for EIA standards introduced his work. He is working with CFI, EDAC and Semitech. His long range concern is EDA standardization of delay/verification and compatibility of related models including IBIS. He is also concerned about the acceptance of standards by major vendors. His documents and preliminary reports are on the Web at http://www.cfi.org/roadmap/roadMap-eii-report.html. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher reported the treasury is $8725.54. IBM and VLSI are members, as previously reported, and Tanner Research has also become a voting member. MINUTES REPORT, MISC. Will submitted some spelling corrections to the 8/25/95 minutes which have been made on the posted copy on vhdl.org. Also, Raj Mittra was incorrectly reported as present at the last meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS C. Kumar reported that the 4th Topical Meeting on Electronic Performance of Electronic Packaging (EPEP'95) is being held in Portland, Oregon on October 2-4, 1995. More information can be obtained on a web site: http://www.emclab.umr.edu/news9.html. AR - Kumar post this on the reflector [Done]. Jon Powell still needs logos from participants. Only a few have been received. Because of some vhdl.org computer difficulties, the message he sent may not have gone out. AR - Jon Powell send again the logo message [Done]. PRESS UPDATES None. NEW MODELS None. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES VI table and slow input discussion based on reflector questions. Ground bounce discussion based on reflector questions. Roadmap questions Ron Christopher is raising related to delay. EIA IBIS RATIFICATION (VOTES) Patti Rusher reported that she has not received the documents from Will. AR - Will Hobbs/Stephen Peters FAX all documents to Patti. Patti requires the rolled up standard, copies of the official responses and changes, and a cover letter. The package will be put together by EIA Engineering to be presented at the next EIA Board Meeting (EDAC) for review and ratification. This will then become EIA-656 and will also be forwarded for ANSI standardization. Will Hobbs will work on a generic press release timed at the official transition. The press release will list the official EIA members. Bob Ross will work with EIA (Cecilia Fleming) regarding ensuring all of the preface changes are included (that were not part of IBIS Version 2.1). FACE TO FACE MEETING Will Hobbs indicated that we typically meet sometime around December plus or minus a month. January is proposed as a meeting time. Intel is willing to host the meeting unless another company wishes to volunteer. A number of technical items will be discussed including monotonicity, package models, clamping models, and other items. In the past, these meetings have been very informative and have resulted in extensions to IBIS. WEB UPDATE Syed Huq reported that the EIA home page is up in preliminary form with a new search utility. IBIS can be accessed by searching on standards proposal 3527 or on (case insensitive) ibis. This currently points to the IBIS Home page area. Syed is going to put in the approved contents. When IBIS becomes EIA-656, then the search will can be done by this number. The web site is http://www.eia.org/eng. The EDN article appears in Word For Windows format on vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/documents. Syed will convert this and have it available on the Web site. Syed will post the FAQ's and will also send a copy to Bob Ross so they can be posted on vhdl.org. FAQ VOTE Q6: Can IBIS model SSO (Simultaneous Switching Output) ? This was posted on the reflector. The issue is that it is dangerous to imply that SSO is completely covered because there can be complicated interactions with external and internal chip and MCM parameters. However, IBIS does have a number of parameters that are useful for SSO analysis. To indicate that SSO can be handled by IBIS models to a limited extent, the original answer "IBIS as a model, has all the important parameters required to model an SSO event. ...." is changed to "IBIS as a model, has the key parameters required to model an SSO event. ..." This change was approved by committee vote, so FAQ Q6 can be posted. The issue of ground bounce generated some positioning discussion related to whether the primary mechanisms are external or internal to the chip. Usually the internal details are not known, nor is there any real desire to make them available. So the primary focus of ground bounce is at the board level. The SSO model being regarded as a practical approximation, but not an exact source of all information. MODEL USAGE TRACKING Syed Huq has been in contact with Michael Steer regarding setting up a model usage tracking system for vhdl.org. The information would be provided only to the providers of models for their models only. Michael Steer needs to respond on the problems and progress of this activity. AR - Michael Steer work with Syed and give status of model usage tracking project. GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE Version 9 has been distributed. A Test Matrix was distributed showing all know problems have been fixed. IBISCHK2 is ready for official (non-Beta) distribution. AR - Will Hobbs work with Paul Munsey to remove the Beta designation. The official Parser will be distributed to those who have purchased it. AR - Bob Ross provide Jon Powell with several IBIS test files to validate functionality of the Parser. The primary reason is to have test cases against which ibishck2 executables for different machines can be tested. AR - Jon Powell make executables for a number of machines and test them. AR - Jon Powell send-to/work-with Bob Ross to post these executables on vhdl.org. This should occur around the October 2 time frame based on peoples schedules. SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1 Michael Steer and North Carolina State University team have posted a Beta version on vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/s2ibis/s2ibis_v2.09. Bob Ross has done a prelimary review, and it functions well. There are a few typos in the documentation and the functionality still needs to be reviewed. A major difference is that the "*" and "**" control syntax is replaced by IBIS keywords and IBIS-like syntax. Syed Huq indicated that National has modified the original s2ibis code to be compatible with the internal Spice features. COOKBOOK Bob Ross reported no progress. NON-MONOTONOCITY Ron Christopher lead the discussion by indicating for a frame of reference that handling non-monotonic drivers seems to be a barrier to a major vendor (IBM) for adopting IBIS. The goal of IBIS was for a transfer of useful information while preserving proprietary process information. IBIS does allow the full characterization of non-monotonic VI data (with warning messages), but the real problem is that the actual internal mechanisms are guarded. Furthermore, performance information is not available. Both are needed for simulator vendors to actually process the data properly. Ron suggested that some independent vendor such as Zeelan could provide measurement based data to give characterization information. That would be a start, but not necessarily the total picture. Also, there may be problems of vendors suppling such sensitive chips for measurement for public distribution and the willingness of whoever does the measurements to distribute the information. Ron will pursue this path. The technical discussions regarding non-monotonic impact related to possible delay artifacts. Jon Powell indicated that attempts to reverse engineer the non-monotonic effects to provide a simulation model were to date unsuccessful. The simulation data did not match the actual data. So the internal mechanisms are probably needed. Other companies may have similar technology. However, TI's reference to GTL structures are probably not similar. Most likely the non-monotonic architecture will be more fully understood and could be implemented in IBIS. Sources of information may emerge through patents and pending patents, papers and other vendors. Vendors interested in using IBIS for these effects need to participate in the IBIS activities to supply the essential information so that EDA vendors can correctly architect the simulators. Ron, through his contacts could urge vendors to become active in IBIS. BIRD30 - PIN PROGRAMMABLE BUFFER STRENGTHS Arpad Muranyi had submitted BIRD30 in August, and it has already generated reflector discussion. Since Arpad was away on a prestigous internal technical conference, Bob Ross summarized BIRD30 and the reflector discussion. BIRD30 introduces the new keyword [Model Selector] keyword. This allows a variety of buffers (different voltages, different strengths, different slew rates, different Model_types, even different technologies) to be assigned to a pin or group of pins. One direction on the reflector was to extend this capability to standardize "Classes" of capability. Then the selection method could be based on function. The consensus was that this complication was not warrented, would be difficult to standardize, and would still be subject to individual simulator characteristics. An opposite direction was to eliminate the "default" parameter and use the first entered model as the default. This would be simplier to implement. An intermediate position was to add a "discription" column associated with each model name. This discription column would guarentee a text entry (as opposed to relying on comment information) which could be viewed by simulators. While not standardized, the information would be reasonably descriptive. It could be used as the basis for interactive user selection of models for a group of pins. The consensus was to go with this approach. AR - Arpad Muranyi submit BIRD30.1 with the "default" parameter removed, with selection of the first model as the default, and with the a description column extension. This will be the basis for further discussion. EGG6 - CMOS/TTL DIFFERENCES Jon Powell introduced EGG6 discussion, also delayed from August. Basically there are differences in the way TTL and CMOS transitions occur. Several proposals have been sent regarding ways to detect TTL and CMOS type data. However, there are probably counter examples where any such detection scheme will fail. An alternative is to introduce into the [Model] keyword another sub-parameter designating TTL, CMOS, etc for technology differentiation. An automatic detections scheme may still be need if such a sub-parameter is not required. This egg is subject to more discussion related to how the transition methods of TTL and CMOS differ, possible sub-parameter markers, and possible automatic detection methods. BIRD27.1 - DEFAULT DIFFERENTIAL THRESHOLD Still Deferred, but will be submitted by Bob Ross in the future. BIRD28.2 PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT Agreement that the "Maxwell" capacitance should be the reference for the coupled matrix. Stephen Peters should submit BIRD28.3 with this change. This may generate more discussion and or lead to a possible vote. ROADMAP QUESTIONS Ron Christopher has some technical issues with IBIS which he has in a frame document on cfi/incoming/timezer. Since various participants do not have ftp or framework capabilitity, it is better to send this document in Postscript form on the reflector. Then the questions and concerns can be considered. AR - Will Hobbs get timezer, transform it, and send to the reflector as a Postscript document. NEXT MEETING: It is set on Friday, October 6, 1995. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210 will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com Modeling Manager, Intel Corp. 2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 To become a voting member of the EIA IBIS Open Forum, send email to ibis-info@vhdl.org for instructions. If you want to join the e-mail reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), send e-mail to the IBIS secretary at ibis-request@vhdl.org. Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================