DATE: November 1, 1995 SUBJECT: 10/27/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS: AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley* Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli* IBM Jay Diepenbrock INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*, Derrick Duehren Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross* Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Myles, Chris Rokusek* Quantic Labs Mike Ventham Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh* Zuken-Redac John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS: ARPA Randy Harr Anacad Steffen Rochel Ansoft Henri Maramis Atmel Corporation Dan Terry Cadlab Ralf Bruning CFI Ron Christopher* Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz EIA Patti Rusher* High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Arthur Wong North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang Symmetry Martin Walker Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu (Independent) Bob Ward In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 12/1/95 (916) 356-9200 2-34986 8556351 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS None. Will Hobbs chaired the first 35 minutes of the meeting, and Jon Powell chaired the rest of the meeting. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT The treasury is still about $8725.54, although one charge against the account is pending. Patti Rusher indicated that TI plans to purchase the ibischk2 source code. MINUTES REPORT, MISC. None. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported that there have been updates in the contents of vhdl.org under the /pub/ibis directory including all of the birds under birds, frequently asked questions under faq, ibischk2 executables under ibischk2, and meeting minutes in text form for all years. Also roster.txt has been moved to roster/roster.txt, and pressrel.dir has been changed to pressrel. Jon Powell reported that H.A.S. Electronics, Inc. at haselect@aol.com has advertised IBIS models. PRESS UPDATES Will Hobbs reported that the October 16, 1995 front page EE Times Article on the P6 referred to I/O models (IBIS models) described in the P6 Users manual. NEW MODELS None reported. [P6 Models not requiring NDA will be available November 1.] OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Ground Bounce per some recent reflector discussion. EIA IBIS RATIFICATION Patti Rusher reported that EIA-656 was OFFICIALLY RATIFIED October 26, 1996 by EDAC. It is being forwarded to ANSI, hopefully for ratification by the end of the year. During an EDA standards roadmap presentations, Don Cottrel referenced IBIS and also raised some requests for additions to better position IBIS. EIA PRESS RELEASE AR - Patti Rusher voluteered to send a draft of the EIA press release for review. It will indicate EDA industry council interest in IBIS. WEB UPDATE (AND EIA) The delay in bringing up IBIS under //www.eia.org/eng is because of legal/ security/copyright concerns about what EIA can present on the Web Site. This is applicable to all Standards, not just IBIS, This also relates to funding from the sale of published documents copyrighted by EIA. This should be resolved within two weeks. Patti Rusher is pushing for a rapid resolution so that at least some of the IBIS material can be presented soon. Jon Powell has logos from eight companies to go on the Web page. Only logos from EIA member companies will be used. This is an additional benefit to become an EIA-IBIS member. AR - Patti Rusher send to Jon Powell the list of member companies who have supplied the required permission letters to use the logo. FACE TO FACE MEETING Syed Huq reported that the majority of respondents favored Monday, January 29 before SuperCon96. He will schedule rooms and make arrangements for National Semiconductor to host the meeting. A possible celebration dinner for EIA-656 completion may be planned that evening for those staying over. MODEL USAGE TRACKING Syed Huq reaffirmed the need and interest to track model usage. Stephen Peters and Syed will seek help within their own organizations because it is an internal issue regarding access through company Web pages. Perhaps their solution will work on vhdl.org. This raised a discussion on pointers to company home pages from EIA. This is feasable and planned. So the possiblity exists that many companies may have IBIS models available under their control and also include the mechanisms to get the NDA models. One possiblility suggested by Jon Powell is an interface which requests the user name before allowing access to certain directories containing the IBIS models. Kellee Crisafulli reported contact and interest by Xilinx to post models. The decision is still being reviewed by management. Sung Oh reported that VLSI wants to remain in control of distibution of their IBIS models. People contact the sales force to get models. GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE Bob Ross has posted the executables created by Jon Powell for ibischk2 on vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/ibischk2. Currently it is a flat directory with all executables appended by the associated workstation. The original posting was corrupted, but the correct versions are now in place. So if you had any problems, check that you have the current executable. Report any problems. Compiler information will be embedded in the executables, similar to the ibis_chk executables for Version 1.1. Jon Powell will take care of creating these after some time to check that there are no new problems. They will then be designated ibischk2 and put under the appropriate workstation directory similar to ibis_chk. The verion number will be version 2.1.10 since these are IBIS version 2.1 (and below) executables. SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1 Bob Ross reported on the comment by Celso Faia of Unicad that a DOS Windows version is needed. Kellee Crisafulli reported that he has been unable to get Version 2.1 compiled, has been in touch with Michael Steer, and may get some internal resources to help. COOKBOOK Bob Ross reported no progress. Since Stephen Peters of Intel is going to do an internal update, he may be the key resource to get this done. Similarly Syed Huq may have some inputs, especially for models from measurements. So Kellee and Bob are turning this over to Stephen and Syed. However, we will all be available to review and give inputs. Since this can be an extra time work project, there is no date committment. So it is taken off the Agenda. BIRD30.2 - PIN PROGRAMMABLE BUFFER STRENGTHS Arpad Muranyi discussed BIRD30.2 with a text revision. Some discussion including its relationship to DCL (Delay Calculation Language) standardization with respect to dynamically selectable buffers was initiated by Ron Christopher. Several ideas to select models including ordering were discussed. The concensus was that the actual selection basis was too complicated to come to an agreement at this time. The description syntax could be standardized, but proposals would have to be developed and considered. The current proposal allows manual selection through a graphical user interface (GUI) with no standardization on descriptions. Jon Powell stated that this could work for One device considerations, but the concern is that it would be a very combersome process for working with a large board with many IBIS model files from several vendors. BIRD30.2 was approved by the Vote. Proposals the improve upon BIRD30.2 would be considered. BIRD28.3+ PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT Stephen Peters reported on C. Kumar's proposed extension recently sent on the reflector. The proposed extension would have to add a pin ordering file and a Matrix name to allow a more general set of coupling relationships. The primary concern was that it may be too close to an MCM discription without including some physical information. This topic is still open for discussion, and the proposed improvement by Kumar in BIRD format could eventually emerge as a new bird to amend approved BIRD28.3 EGG6 - TTL and CMOS Jon Powell reported that he is still investigating three suggestions including one provided by Arpad Muranyi to automatically detect whether a device is TTL or CMOS. He is pessimistic, but needs validation of his position. EGG7 - CONNECTOR AND CABLE MODEL Bob Ross summarized the proposed Connector model extension which involves no change of the IBIS Specification. It provides an interpretation of the existing package model formats from the default model though the Version 2.1 Matrix models up to BIRD28.3 extensions. Involvement by a connector manufacturer such as AMP would be helpful to test the practicality of this approach. Several names were suggested and Bob will follow up. The CABLE model would require new syntax and complication, but it could then handle more complicated interconnection schemes with connection from, say, pin 1 of board 1 to connection or pin 2 of board 2. PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION Kellee Chrissafulli is nearing completion of a proposal for such an extension. EGG8 is reserved for this. GROUND BOUNCE Bob Ross reported on recent Email from Michael Gutzmann, and this was briefly discussed in the remaining time. One concern was whether there were additional parameters or layout which would contribute to significant inaccuracies beyond what the proposed improvement would cover. What accuracy can be achieved and what accuracy currently exists? How are the real skew effects handled? This topic remains open for discussion and proposals. NEXT MEETING: It is set on Friday, December 1, 1995 (Moved from November 17 because several people would be out). ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210 will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp. 2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 To become a voting member of the EIA IBIS Open Forum, send email to ibis-info@vhdl.org for instructions. If you want to join the e-mail reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), send e-mail to the IBIS secretary at ibis-request@vhdl.org. Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================