DATE: December 5, 1995 SUBJECT: 12/1/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS: AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley* Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar* Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar* HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli IBM Jay Diepenbrock INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi, Derrick Duehren Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross* Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Myles, Chris Rokusek* Quantic Labs Mike Ventham* Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh* Zuken-Redac John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS: AMP Hank Herrmann* ARPA Randy Harr Anacad Steffen Rochel Ansoft Henri Maramis Atmel Corporation Dan Terry Cadlab Ralf Bruning CFI Ron Christopher, Don Cottrell* Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz EIA Patti Rusher* High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Arthur Wong North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang Symmetry Martin Walker Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu (Independent) Bob Ward In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 12/15/95 (916) 356-9200 2-41859 7747258 1/12/96 (916) 356-9200 2-41860 1918954 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Hank Herrmann of AMP, Inc. indicated his interest in IBIS as a result of of meeting Stephen Peters at a JEDEC JC-15 meeting. Don Cottrell of CFI joined us to discuss the DCL and Roadmap relationship with IBIS. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT No change in the treasury was reported. TI did purchase the ibischk2 source code. MINUTES REPORT, MISC. The October 27, 1995 Minutes have been changed to include Kellee Crisafulli as an attendee. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS UPDATES Patti Rusher reported that the press release announcing the ratification of IBIS as EIA-656 was sent out last week. Will Hobbs indicated that he has already had discussion from a United Kingdom publication editor. Will Hobbs also reported the EE Times article of November 27, 1995 "Group eyes 'free' VHDL sim models", by Richard Goering, mentioned IBIS and quotes by Will in the article. The article discussed the Free Model Forum activity which is seeking to acquire, develop and distribute IBIS models as well. C. Kumar indicated that representatives were visiting Cadence to seek funding from Vendors for modeling efforts. NEW MODELS The PentiumPro (P6 Models) were made publically available November 1. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Free Model Foundation Depletion Capacitance Discussion EIA-656 ANSI RATIFICATION Patti Rusher has been pushing EIA-656 ratification as an ANSI standard. She still expects a 1995 date on the ANSI Standard. No further action is needed by the IBIS committee. EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP Patti Rusher will send out EIA/IBIS 1996 membership renewal forms in December. Annual membership is $500 per company. Bob Ross indicated that for the purposes of meeting quorums existing memberships will be carried through the end of January to give time for the membership fees to be paid. No additional golden parser fee is needed for those who have already purchased the source code of Version 2.1, and the same 50% discounts apply for those who have not purchased the source code. Will Hobbs indicated that there are 22 parser licencees. WEB UPDATE (AND EIA) Patti Rusher reported that the Web page issue is still under discussion and is of concern to many groups. Uniformity of content and security are issues, and EIA has hired a consultant to help out. She is pushing hard for a resolution at the Monday, December 4 internal meeting. Syed Huq needs to know what can be published. Everything is in place to be copied. Jon Powell indicated he received copies of logo permission letters from 10 companies. This needs to be checked since Quad Design was not included. Jon will work with Syed Huq to provide the Logos in a common format (probably GIF) so that a collage of logos can be created by pointers. We also discussed the possibility of linking the logos to their respective companies' home pages. Unless the EIA web issues are resolved, further discussion on web plans including the possibility of setting up one separately on vhdl.org will occur at the next meeting. USERS' GROUP Bob Ross reported that the IBIS USERS' GROUP reflector ibis-users@vhdl.org is active. No real activity has occurred to date, but discussion issues are expected. Over 240 members are in this and the ibis@vhdl.org groups. No membership breakdown is available. Many countries are represented. Also there is a new "wip" directory for work in progress under /pub/ibis on vhdl.org to be used for temporarily storing working documents. Currently a draft of Version 3.0 exists which includes approved BIRD28.3 and BIRD30.2. FACE TO FACE MEETING Syed Huq has made arrangements for National to host the meeting on Monday, January 29 before SuperCon96. He has scheduled a room, equipment and food. He is planning for about 35-40. This meeting will be focused on technical discussions. A group dinner is planned to celebrate the standardization of IBIS. AR - Syed Huq post details on meeting and request an RSVP for planning purposes. [Done] Will Hobbs discussed devoting a portion of time to the modeling validation concerns that exist in semiconductor companies, particularly in relations to on-going production testing. The problem is how to verify in the testers that the components meet the predictions of the models - what to measure, how many points on a V/I curve are sufficient, etc. Can and/or should IC vendors guarantee by test that the models accurately bracket the silicon characteristics? Intel and National will participate in this, but other vendors are encouraged to give their experiences and concerns as well. Another important segment is to seek actual users of IBIS models and ask them to present their experiences and problems. IBIS participants who are users or who have worked with users are encouraged to seek their participation. Several members indicated that they will follow through on this. Syed Huq did a direct polling of roster members and found that 7 supported IBIS Version 2.1 and 7 supported Version 1.1. His concern was that some Version 2.1 level models will not work properly at lower levels and encouraged EDA Vendor Discussion of their IBIS Verison 2.1 plans. Such a discussion can also be tied in with the general modeling issue discussion. People who have topics to present should summit them to Bob Ross, Syed Huq or Will Hobbs. Bob, Syed and Will will coordinate the agenda. AR - Everyone solicit participation by IBIS Users. AR - Anyone who wants to present notify Bob, Syed or Will. MODEL USAGE TRACKING Will Hobbs mentioned Intel has IBIS models on their bulletin board, but is not aware of any usage tracking activities. Syed Huq stated that National IBIS models are available from the external National Web site: http://www.natsemi.com They are trying to find a way to track models usage. GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE Jon Powell created the executables for ibischk2, and Bob Ross put them on vhdl.org. Will Hobbs has sent out the final version of source code. Several problems have been discovered by Bob Ross and Chris Rokusek which will require a revised bug-fix release. Our intent is to capture all of the bugs and do an update in January. These problems will be sent to Paul Munsey for review and a quote on fixing the problems. AR - Anyone finding Parser bugs submit them to Bob Ross. Include a test case, if possible. So far the bugs are (1) not accepting multiple [Disclaimer] keywords, (2) giving an incorrect Warning message when metric unit multipliers are used for [Define Package Model] matrix entries, and (3) not detecting a syntax error for incorrect [Model] sub-parameters "Model_type=", "Polarity=", and "Enable=". SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1 Bob Ross reported that he has submitted some bugs and enhancement requests on s2ibis-v2.091 (a Beta version). Since this is a Beta version an update is expected. BIRD31 - CONNECTOR MODELS Bob Ross introduced BIRD31. The primary aspects are that it relies on existing syntax and introduces no new keywords or sub-parameters. It is a new section which will follow the Package Modeling Section in the Specification. The controversial aspect of this proposal is that connectors would be split into two parts for each board. They would be joined by Simulator specification which "mates" the models by series concatenation. Hank Herrman of AMP expressed concern that "mated models" representing connectors are not easily split, nor are they necessarily meaningful in a split mode, which represents unconnected connector. So an alternative proposal will be a "mated connector model" by itself. Dave Moxley suggested that Components which are for connector pins could be designated by a "mated model" keyword. The BIRD did not address cables, but one possiblility is that cables could be represented by mated models as longer connectors. Hank also would like to see a parameter that specifies the bandwidth or minimum time response for which a connector is valid because models of increased complexity are needed for higher speed applications. Bob Ross will write up some of the discussion and carry this on the reflector and at the Face-to-Face Meeting. Minutes correction/addition: Hank asked what connector subjects will be discussed at the Face-to-Face meeting. The specific topics have not be decided. Secondly, he adds: When BIRD31 was discussed, I recognized the need for many users to have unmated models to simulate "not-fully-populated busses". They would not be used for such analyses as cables or I/O connectors when there is a complete interconnection. While we do not routinely supply unmated models now, there is no reason that they could not be provided. They would even be simpler than "part of the mated model" which the BIRD suggests. What I recommend is that two types of connector models be defined. First, mated models for most interconection applications. Second, unmated models that have no through connection for situations that demand simulations of "not-fully-populated busses". BIRD28.3+ PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT Stephen Peters has reviewed C. Kumar's extension and now sees the merits of adding a pin ordering file and Matrix name parameter for extending the package model. Kumar reported that one benefit will be to call smaller matrices that are used often, for a more compact description. This would allow a more general set of coupling relationships. C. Kumar plans to submit to Will Hobbs a new BIRD on this. Another discussion included generalizing the loss model to include the G matrix, since it may become more factor in MCMs, package models, cables with dielectric losses. This would take another BIRD. EGG8 - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION Bob Ross introduced the subject of EGG8 which would be a significant departure for just the IBIS I/O models scope. Will Hobbs expressed the concern that one of the biggest modeling issues is how to describe MCMs and SIMM packages. So this proposal is of great interest to the IBIS community and needs to be pursued. A discussion at the next meeting can be reserved for this issue. DCL RELATIONSHIP WITH IBIS Don Cottrell of CFI reported that Ron Christopher has identified areas where the Delay Calculation Language (DCL) and IBIS may be related. DCL needs loading conditions for correct delays, and IBIS can be of help. DCL focuses on delays within an MCM or Chip. He requested that someone on the IBIS committee be identified to work with him and the DCL community on any joint common ground issues and help generate possible proposals. Stephen Peters voluteered to get involved and report back on progress. EGG6 - TTL and CMOS Chris Rokusek indicated that the efforts to distinguish technologies by the data itself suggested by Arpad Muranyi and others does not always work. His major concern is that to simulate the rising edge of a TTL model, it is voltage source driven, versus a current source driven for CMOS and pulldown characteristics. ECL type structures are already differentiated by Model_type. He will present his findings on the reflector to stimulate discussion an consideration of alternatives. DEPLETION CAPACITANCE Bob Ross indicated that the depletion capacitance issue which has been discussed in the past is ripe for an Egg to generate more discussion. He plans to submit one. NEXT MEETING: It is set on Friday, December 15, 1995, and the following meeting is on Friday, January 12, 1996 after the Christmas and New Years Holidays. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210 will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp. 2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 The following email addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================