DATE: January 16, 1996 SUBJECT: 1/12/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS: AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley* Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar* Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli* IBM Jay Diepenbrock INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*, Derrick Duehren Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross* Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Myles, Chris Rokusek* Quantic Labs Mike Ventham Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish Texas Instruments Roger Cline*, Ben Andresen*, Sri Jandhyala*, Tareq Shahwan Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh Zuken-Redac John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS: AMP Hank Herrmann* ARPA Randy Harr Anacad Steffen Rochel Ansoft Henri Maramis Atmel Corporation Dan Terry Cadlab Ralf Bruning CFI Ron Christopher, Don Cottrell Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz EIA Patti Rusher* High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Ralph Perez* North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang Symmetry Martin Walker Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu (Independent) Bob Ward In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1/29/96 NONE - IBIS SUMMIT 8 AM - 5 PM, SANTA CLARA, CA 2/16/96 (916) 356-9200 2-48992 5519538 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Ralph Perez joined from MicroSim, replacing the previous representative. He is involved with libraries. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT Hewlett-Packard - EEsof Division has officially joined for 1996 and has also purchased the IBISCHK2 Source code. Patti Rusher reported no change in the treasury. MINUTES REPORT, MISC. Spelling error of Sri Jandhyala's last name was corrected. The outstanding action item is to send out membership renewals. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS The IBIS mail reflector on vhdl.org has been down due to some unresolved problems. Bob Ross will use a script to do reflector mailings until the problem is resolved. If you want to mail something, you can still send it to the reflector where it will be archived. Bob will retransmit the unsent email.archive messages. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Hyperlynx EM article in Electronic Engineering Times, December 18, 1995, pg. 72 mentions IBIS. NEW MODELS Stephen Peters reported that a new pentpro.pkg model has been submitted. Intel also has announced some new chipset models available under NDA. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES ANSI review (already on agenda) R_load and R_fixture (not covered) EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP Patti Rusher will send out EIA/IBIS 1996 membership forms shortly. Bob Ross had reviewed the list. AR - Patti Rusher send out membership invoices for 1996. AR - All pay invoice within 45 days. The committee will keep existing members for 45 days after the receipt of the invoice to give time to go through corporation payment processes. ANSI/EIA-656 EDITORIAL REVIEW Bob Ross received a review copy of the above standard prior to formal publication as an ANSI Standard. Jon Powell and Will Hobbs reviewed the comments and agree with all of the editorial English text corrections. Only the global suggestion to separate numbers from the units multipliers in ACTUAL examples will be rejected for obvious reasons. We will suggest removing the two "ANNEX" BIRDS since they were relevant only in the voting process and not in the final version. This new version will carry the date "December 13, 1995" within reflecting the date of formal approval. Bob plans to supply the updated text of Version 2.1 to EIA and also to store it on vhdl.org when finished. This will form the technical portion of the complete standard that will be available from EIA. DAC STANDARDS BOOTH The Design Automation Conference (DAC) in June, 1996 will have a Standards booth in a prominant front location. EIA is invited to participate. The IBIS committee expressed support. The pro-rated fee of the $5K, 1000 sq. ft. booth to the IBIS committee is expected to be only several hundred dollars, depending upon whether the committee will have handouts only, or have demonstrations of IBIS. EDIF 4 0 0 is expected to have undergone final review and will be demonstrated at DAC. Patti Rusher reported that arrangement details will be decided at February 27, 1996 planning meeting. The scope of the IBIS participation will be put on the agenda for the IBIS Face to Face Meeting. EIA can take orders for ANSI/EIA-656 and other standards, but may not sell anything off the floor. They can have literature and demos. AR - Will Hobbs put on the Face to Face Agenda the level of IBIS involvement at DAC. EIA WEB UPDATE Syed Huq reported that the Web Page is up!! He requests feedback since there may be some minor problems. The full address needs to be entered: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Otherwise an error will be issued. The higher level search utility does NOT point to this page. The web site links to vhdl.org and to company home pages for those who had requested it. This linkage is done from the IBIS Membership Poster page. Response during the meeting indicated that people were very pleased with the presentation and layout. Two final hand-scanned pictures in the EDN article have been sent to EIA and need to be included. AR - Will Hobbs check with Derrick Duehren regarding EDN article source. Texas Instruments still plans to send the logo file to Jon Powell (who will then forward it to Syed Huq) and the permission letter to Patti Rusher. TI will not link to its home page at this time. FACE TO FACE MEETING Syed Huq reported that the meeting will take place at the Westin Hotel (attached to the Conference Center where SuperCon96 will be held the next day) on January 29, 1996. Two rooms are reserved for the Summit. So far 34 people have signed up from about 20 different companies, and more local participation is expected. The ANSI/EIA-656 Celebration Dinner will be DUTCH TREAT at 6:00 p.m. at the Same Hotel. The early hour will allow those who need to fly home that evening to catch their flights. The same location eliminates the time lost traveling and gathering at another location. Reservations will be made during the morning of the Face to Face meeting for those who want to attend. Will Hobbs is requesting presentors to supply him with topics and estimated time by the end of the day. Will, Bob Ross, and Syed Huq will start drafting the agenda the following week. Several people expressed intentions of having presents on BIRD subjects and other topics. Semiconductor Vendor participation will probably include at least Texas Instruments on TI IBIS Activities, National Semiconductor on model provider experience, and Intel on bus keepers and on various modeling considerations. BIRD/Egg subjects that are being considered will probably each have presentations/discussions. The new RAIL (Rules Augmented Interconnect Layout) committee (chaired by Don Telian of Intel who also chaired the initial IBIS work leading to Version 1.0) has requested 45 minutes to introduce RAIL and also show how it relates to IBIS. AR - All Potential Presenters inform Will Hobbs by Friday, January 12. [Done] Presenters should bring several extra copies. National will collect a copy of each presentation and reproduce them for distribution during the meeting. Presentions provided in electronic form can be archived in an directory on vhdl.org. Bob Ross will handle this. GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE Bob Ross reported no activity yet. A bug fix release is expected early this year. Will Hobbs indicated the need for a PARSER Bug tracking System. Jon Powell volunteered to take charge since he has the ibischk2 source code for distribution. Kellee Crisafulli discovered, but did not record, some uninitialized variables which cause problems when ibischk2 is re-entered. This would be a problem when ibischk2 is re-entered, as occurs when used within the Hyperlynx winibis viewing/checking/editing utility. AR - Jon Powell send out draft form to Will Hobbs and Bob Ross for review. [DONE] SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1 Bob Ross reported no further information. EGG8 - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION Kellee Crisafulli lead a long discussion on his approach to address MCM and SIMM layout repesentation. Stephen Peters supports the approach, and Jon Powell would like the see the proposal move forward somehow. An alternative approach is to consider EDIF 4 0 0. Do we need the added complexity. Or do we want something simple, easy, and not too powerful? This proposal is expected to help interface small PCB layout, SIMM and MCM layout information with IBIS electrical characterics. Kellee may want to get PCB layout vendors to partipate in the generation of the format. The format itself is intended to be SIMPLE. Translators to internal formats by (say, RSI) could be easily made available for sale. Jon Powell indicated that most "models" would usually be autogenerated. The format is very readable and understandable. This proposal would produce a separate ".pcb" file similar to the .pkg file associated with package models. The format of this file including stackup and physical dimensions is quite different from the IBIS format. AR - Kellee turn this into BIRD33, issued at the meeting. Further discussion involved speculating that RSI could be hired to create a writer or file generator for .pcb files and licence it to PC layout companies to offer. Kellee felt that RSI would do this for a few thousand dollars ($5-10K). Bob Ross recommends we explore its context and position it as a separate effort. Kellee indicates that it does not have the enough "umph" to to stand by itself, so it should tag along with another standard such as IBIS. Kellee expects to lead more discussion at the Face to Face Meeting. EGG9 - HANDLING STORED CHARGE Bob Ross has not pursued further some details on this proposal. This is planned to be a topic at the Face to Face Meeting. BIRD31 - CONNECTOR MODELS Bob Ross reported that the idea of spliting the connector onto each board has been abandoned. He is working on another proposal. Some additional considerations will be presented at the Face to Face Meeting. Jon Powell raised the concern that grounding (or lack of grounding) is a critical difference from package model considerations. Hank Herrmann indicated that AMP Spice models do not have any assumed ground references. The model is designed so that any of the pins can be used as ground or power references. You simply connect the pins to the references, just as you would do with the actual connector. BIRD32 PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT C. Kumar has sent out BIRD32 which expands on BIRD28.3 to provide both a more comprehensive and a more compact electrical package description. Even vias could be modeled. A key enhancement is the naming of matrices, so matrices can be called out in many places. Smaller matrices would be extracted anyway through field solver analysis. One concern is the matrix capablility in IBIS 2.1 is not used. Kellee and Jon Powell would like to see IC vendors to comment on whether they would put models in that format. Kumar commented that coupled matrix considerations will be a requirement within a year as speed approach the 150 MHz and above range. Stephen Peters indicated that the new proposal has merit, but is not totally consistent with the proposals to date. It would be beneficial to look at the complete package picture and produce a totally consistent extension. One source it to review the BIRD28.3 proposal integrated in the /wip/ver3_0a file of IBIS unofficial drafts. Bob Ross, Kumar, and Stephen can work on this, but cannot commit to finishing this before the Face to Face Meeting. Bob Ross commented that BIRD32 might be the simplification necessary to enable such package models to be created. Hank Herrmann indicated that BIRD32 would help make connector models compact enough to be practical. The level of electrical description detail versus physical description detail (of Egg8) would be of concern, but the proposals are complimentary. This is expected to be discussed at the Face to Face Meeting. EGG6 - TTL and CMOS Jon Powell is convinced that the differences can be handled within the current IBIS Specification, but with a change in test loads to get the proper dynamic parameters. If permitted, he will report on this at the Face to Face Meeting. NEXT MEETING: The Face-to-Face Meeting is on Monday, January 29, 1996 in Santa Clara, CA. The next telephone meeting is set for Friday, February 16, 1996. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210 will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp. 2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following email addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================