DATE: April 23, 1996 SUBJECT: 4/19/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Hank Herrmann* Cadence Design C. Kumar* Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui Cypress Bruce Wenniger Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli INCASES Olaf Rethmeier* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*, John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet*, Donald Telian, Jim Kruchowski Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross* Meta-Software (Les Spruiell) Mitsubushi Tam Cao Motorola Ahmed Omer* National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto), Quad Design Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek* Quantic Labs (Mike Ventham) Tanner Research, Inc. (Scott Wedge) Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala, Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh*, Swami Gangadharan, Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996: Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Altera Vadim von Brzeski Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Mark Leonard* Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu* EIA Patti Rusher* IC Works Eric Chen Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Ralph Perez Molex Gus Panella* North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison Veribest/Integraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 5/10/96 (916) 356-9200 2-66109 4323275 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Gus Panella of Molex joined because of recent IBIS interest. Gus has been involved for many years with electromagnetic extraction of connector model information. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher received membership requests from Jeff Chu of Digital Equipment and Ian Dodd of Veribest. Patti Rusher estimated the treasury at $6000, with $2500 pending for DAC participation. (After the meeting, Patti updated the actual number to be $12,488.59. DAC booth participation expense reduces this to $9,988.59.) MINUTES REPORT, MISC. No Corrections. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Patti Rusher has written a correction letter to EDN indicating that IBIS has been formally ratified by EIA and ANSI. NEW MODELS Bob Ross reports that VLSI has submitted information to Michael Steer, although it has not yet been posted on vhdl.org. AR - Bob Ross investigate posting of VLSI information. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP Patti Rusher indicates about 5 or 6 outstanding invoices, although she has to verify with accounting the most recent status. AR - Bob Ross continue working with Patti Rusher to monitor the payment for official EIA/IBIS Committee Membership. DAC STANDARDS BOOTH Patti Rusher is coordinating the booth with Jon Powell. It will have a back-lit logo and poster. We still should send the 8-1/2" by 11" posters with Velcro backing to Jon. You can also take them to DAC if you will be at DAC the first day. Pat Manley, a graphics artist at the advertising agency doing the other EIA work will create an electronic combination of logos. Send electronic version of logos to adgroup@aol.com Patti received the IBIS bullet items information from Bob Ross for the poster. Since this is coordinated with Jon Powell, Patti and Jon need to work out the exact process for the posters and communicate it to the reflector. (Also pending are the "I Speak IBIS" badges.) ANSI/EIA-656 PUBLICATION Patti Rusher reports that the published version of ANSI/EIA-656 has been sent to member companies. Several members have reported getting a copy. AR - EIA/IBIS Members: if you have not received your copy, notify Patti. DAC (DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE) MEETING ARRANGEMENTS AND AGENDA Patti Rusher reports that Ron Werner is planning a Standards Roadmap Birds of the Feather meeting on Thursday, June 6, 1996 between 6 PM and 8 PM. We will participate in this rather than doing our own BOF session because IBIS is now quite well-known. We will hold the DAC IBIS Meeting on Friday morning, June 7, 1996, and allowing time for people to return that afternoon. Past DAC meetings have been focused on ratification and administrative issues versus technical issues. However, since we have only a few administrative issues and some pending technical development, we probably will have some technical discussions. We are seeking company sponsors for the meeting which usually involves booking a room and providing some refreshments. Chris Rokusek of Quad Design, Will Hobbs of Intel, and C. Kumar of Cadence all check on sponsoring the Face-to-Face meeting. We estimate about 25 participants. A fallback plan is to use IBIS funds. AR - Chris Rokusek, Will Hobbs, and C. Kumar obtain closure by April 26 regarding hosting the meeting. MODEL REWARD PROGRAM Syed Huq reintroduced the program to reward companies which provide free, public IBIS models. We decided to issue certificates of appreciation to be presented at the IBIS meeting to the companies which provide such models along with acknowledgment in a press release. This certificate would be signed by EIA officers and Will Hobbs. Several organizations providing free models and free utilities were mentioned. Patti Rusher, Syed Huq, and Bob Ross will work off line to identify the recipients. Many IBIS models are also available through direct contact with companies. Bob Ross is interested in identifying these contacts and publicizing them. AR - Bob Ross post a request for anyone to submit possible contact people who have IBIS models for distribution. Appropriate contacts for getting IBIS models will be published on vhdl.org. EIA WEB UPDATE No change. Over 860 people have hit the page. GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE The Parser has been sent out. Patti Rusher has paid the submitted bill. AR - Bob Ross will check out the new parser. AR - Jon Powell create new executable and work with Bob to update the information on vhdl.org. SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 1.3 Bob Ross has put the new version on vhdl.org. SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1 Michael Steer reported privately that he will plan an upgrade. AR - Bob Ross work with Michael Steer concerning the s2ibis2.1 upgrade. EXPRESS ACTION ITEMS Patti Rusher reports that ANSI/EIA-656 has been put forth for international standardization under TC-93. An Express representation is required. The pending EDIF 4 0 0 has an Express representation as does several other EDA standards. Anyone within the IBIS community may propose doing an Express representation. We are also seeking a proposal from Hilary Kahn from the University of Manchester, UK, an Express expert who is familiar with IBIS. DARPA funding may also be available for such a project. AR - Patti Rusher request a proposal from Hilary Kahn and also copy Randy Harr to inquire about the possibility of DARPA funding. [Done] IBIS COMMENTS ON EDIF 3 9 9 Stephen Peters discussed the comments by David Wiens. Several vendors are seriously considering interfacing to EDIF 4 0 0. The main concerns are to have EDIF syntax to reference IBIS models and to reduce the redundant ways to reference passive R, L, C components. The comments will be adopted as an IBIS committee position. Patti Rusher wants the comments as early as possible so that the EDIF technical group can move forward on them within the introduction schedule. Patti also indicates that Hilary Kahn has a sample PCB description that may be posted on the reflector. AR - Stephen Peters work with David Wiens to finalize the response and copy Patti Rusher and post the official comment on the Reflector. BIRD31.1 - MATED MODELS Bob Ross recapped the key points of BIRD31.1. The mated model will be in a separate .mmf file and not in a .ibs file. BIRD31.1 will track any approved package model development beyond BIRD28.3. BIRD31.1 is a two-terminal syntax for similar capability. One addition is optional a pad capacitance. Some reflector comments by Hank Herrman and David Fogel were noted. The first point concerns Hank's proposal to add an edge rate parameter to the mated model. His main point is that, unlike a package model which is assumed to be associated with a particular die and therefore constructed with correspondingly adequate detail, there is no way to determine the intended performance limit of a mated model. If the edge rate is too fast, the model may simulate too much ringing. Bob Ross argued against the additions by stating these points: (1) There already exists a required [Description] parameter where such information could be presented in a manner similar to comment lines in Spice programs. (2) In any case, simulators would not be able to do anything about non-compliance. (3) There is no parallel counterpart for package models. (4) It is unclear which limit to use - the largest time for which one "stage" would give adequate limits, or the smallest time for which an infinitely distributed stage would gives an accurate structure. Hank clarified that this would be a model structure limit - the smallest time would apply before a more complicated model would be appropriate. After some more discussion and support by Gus Panella and Stephen Peters, Bob agreed to add an edge rate specification subparameter. The second point relates to defining the mated model physical limits. With an edge card connector the circuit board fingers which could also have their own ground plane extendions into the connector. The consensus was that the mated model would end at the surface of the mated-model. The mated model contains the optional C_pad1 and C_pad2 to provide an estimate of adjoining PCB pad capacitances that are typically not within the mated model. Because of historical evolution from the simplest L_pkg, R_pkg, C_pkg structures to the more complicated coupled matrix models, the package model already provides for such pad capacitances. Stephen questioned whether the mated model should apply for sockets. IBIS models for the Pentium Pro includes the socket within the package model. When the socket is modeled as a mated model, the package parameters of the device to be inserted into the socket may contain inappropriate, excessive information. However, independent socket models are still needed. So we agreed to continue including sockets within the mated model syntax. Bob Ross will issue BIRD31.2 adding the edge rate limit parameter and clarifying the mated model boundaries. BIRD33 (EGG8) - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION Stephen Peters reported that the package committee endorsed the EDIF 4 0 0 approach for physical representation. Future discussion will be on electrical representations. Two possibilities include a Spice-like approach by C. Kumar and a sement approach by Jon Powell. While syntactically different, these approaches have similarities with respect to transmission line and nodal structures. They both can handle general topologies which include forks and possibly closed loops. Stephen indicated that handling ball grid array packages with stub elements is a real necessity. He also has a proposal which extends the existing BIRD28.3 structure to include forks and nodes. The next meeting will be on Thursday, May 2, 1996. BIRD34.1 (EGG9) - HANDLING STORED CHARGE Bob Ross plans to send an HSPICE example which illustrates the BIRD34.1 proposal. Simulations of the equations in the proposal match the Spice diode model simulations. C. Kumar advised Bob of a recent March, 1996 paper in the IEEE Circuits and Systems Transactions on diode modeling including stored charge effects. EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING Chris Rokusek mentioned the two key items: A check is needed to assure that the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] voltage ranges for given fixture provide ranges consistent with the V/I tables. Also, Stephen Peters proposes a units check for realistic values - a common trap. Bob Ross pointed out that this test needs to be based on actual values since the parser already process the numerical information. More time will be available at the next meeting for discussion. NEXT MEETING: The next telephone meeting is set for Friday, May 10, 1996. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210 will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp. 2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc. 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. ibischk-bug@vhdl.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================