DATE: November 12, 1996 SUBJECT: 11/08/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser, Ray Ziesse*, Jeff Walden* Applied Simulation Technology Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou (formerly Contec) Cadence Design C. Kumar* Cypress Bruce Wenniger Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs, Arpad Muranyi*, John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet, [Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*, Chris Reid Meta-Software (Sanjay Gangal) Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen Motorola Ahmed Omer National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, [Donald Snyder], Chune-Sin Yeh, [Bill Aronson] NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto), Quad Design Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek* Quantic Laboratories (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala, Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia* Veribest Ian Dodd*, David Wiens VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan, Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions, Hrish Patel Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996: 3M Fran Hart, George Hare Actel Scott Schlachter* Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Altera Vadim von Brzeski Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Mark Leonard Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu EIA Patti Rusher IC Works Eric Chen Mentor Graphics Kim Owen Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Ralph Perez Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao Philips Semiconductor Mike Magdaluyo Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison VTC, Inc. Bob Ward Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 12/06/96 (916) 356-9200 4-35933 6785885 1/10/97 (916) 356-9200 4-35934 5448699 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Scott Schlachter of Actel has started developing IBIS files for customers and is getting IBIS information to ramp up on all aspects of IBIS. His initial concern is correlating IBIS with measurements from silicon. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross indicated that the ledger remains at $9,285 with some deductions pending. MINUTES REPORT, MISC. No changes, all AR's done with Ian Dodd still planning his s2ibis postings and C. Kumar providing more test load discussions. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported references to IBIS in "Analysis Tools Target PC-Board Design-Cycle Front End" in Electronic Design, October 24, 1996, pp. 40-50. Also, "Tackling the Models Problem" in "Printed Circuit Design, November 1996, pp.14-17 and a VeriBest reference on pg. 36. NEW MODELS Arpad Muranyi plans to submit more Intel models. Jon Powell sent out a reflector note that National has a revised gp612mea.ibs file and Syed Huq sent out a note about a new dp83840a.ibs file on the National "lan" Web page. Bob Ross reported that the IDT shows a list of IBIS models under http://www.idt.com/cross_pl/models/ibs.html OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Chris Rokusek on Cookbook Ian Dodd on s2ibis Bob Ross on reflector technical issues (covered throughout) DESIGN SUPERCON97 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Bob Ross asked and received consensus that National Semiconductor be formally chosen as the host company at the Design SuperCon97 IBIS face-to-face meeting on Monday, January 20, 1997 in Santa Clara, California. Later, Syed Huq reported that he will make the local arrangements and will send information on the IBIS reflector. It will be an all day session, probably from 8 AM to 5 PM and either at a hotel or at National. Syed will supply names of local hotels. Syed indicated that there will be technical sessions including those on model development experiences. Soft copies will be put on the vhdl.org directory, and Syed will take care of making copies of presentations to distribute to participants. Bob asked that people who would like to give presentations contact Syed with the topic and time needed. Most presentations are expected to be in the 10 to 20 minute range to promote discussion. Bob and Syed will organize the topics and create the meeting agenda. Stephen Peters asked if our goal is to approve Version 3.0 at that meeting. Bob responded that that would be a good target, but Version 3.0 might get delayed pending how the Electrical Interconnect Description proposal evolves. AR - Syed send out information on the January IBIS Summit meeting. DAC97 PLANNING Bob Ross reported that Patti Rusher has asked for a commitment on whether EIA organizations including the IBIS Open Forum will participate in the booth at DAC97. The minimum level of participation costs $2500 and allows us to show a poster. EIA will have a full booth, as last year. We could supply literature. Bob recommended that we go ahead and commit to this since there is great benefit in being supportive of all standards. Besides, the IBIS Open Forum has received tremendous help from being associated with EIA including administrative help, assistance and credibility to promote IBIS through the national and international standardization processes. Patti Rusher can arrange the IBIS meeting room once we set the date. Stephen Peters questioned how much traffic existed at DAC. Bob did not know. We can still have the "We Like IBIS" and "IBIS Spoken Here" signs at booths. Also we can still investigate having our own booth at some remote location at DAC. We will seek official approval at the next meeting. IEC PROGRESS Patti Rusher has indicated to Bob Ross that she believes IBIS is progressing smoothly. S2IBIS PLANS Bob Ross reported that he had briefly reviewed a new Beta version of s2ibis2 (Version 0.99). Bob felt that it should be put on vhdl.org where others could check the improvements. Reported problems have been addressed, and Spectre support has been added. A number of crash problems from memory leaks have been resolved. Format confusion associated with data that exceeds the numerical scale factor limits has been solved by converting the data to scientific notation. A make file for other platforms including Windows, DOS, AIX, etc has been added, although Alan Glaser is unable to test this. The version will be put on vhdl.org as soon as it is packaged. Scott Schlacter brought up his questions concerning the extrapolation algorithm. Bob mentioned that there was a reason for the algorithm, and he will put a response on the IBIS reflector. Other technical discussion occurred. Scott suggested a subdirectory for s2ibis fixes. After some discussion, Bob felt that we will do that only if there is need. Currently, however, the ibis-users@vhdl.org reflector should be used to report and discuss bugs and get help. Syed Huq, in addition to testing, said he would keep tabs of the bugs. We will send information including any suggested fixes back to NCSU so they can maintain control any source code extensions. Ian Dodd indicated that he is still exploring releasing the Veribest version of Spice to IBIS with some bug fixes and support for NT. This could either be put on vhdl.org or on the Veribest Web site. He still needs to send out a list of bugs/fixes he has done to s2ibis2. COOKBOOK for 2.1 Chris Rokusek raised the point that we have resolved a number of issues as Cookbook additions, but there is no IBIS Version 2.1 Cookbook. One example might be recommended test loads for [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] keywords. While Version 2.1 supports any test load, the silicon vendor needs guidance of what works best for simulation. Most likely, resistive test loads at various voltages will give the best results. The simulator vendors can supply to Chris what they consider the best test loads. Chris believes that test loads at ground and Vcc were best, with a third test load at the midpoint voltage for validation. Stephen Peters plans an internal Intel Cookbook and can supply a sanitized version to the IBIS Committee by the end of the year. Chris volunteered to head the Cookbook effort and compile the results. Bob Ross will put this on the agenda for regular reports. Chris should work with Kellee Crisafulli, Bob, Stephen and anyone else. BIRD38 - MAXIMUM VOLTAGE Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD38, which the Specification Committee had recommended be rejected since the contents were covered in BIRD39. BIRD38 was disapproved by unanimous vote. BIRD39 - SPECIFICATION ENHANCEMENT Bob Ross introduced BIRD39 that adds the optional [Model Spec] keyword for adding min and max thresholds, a set of hysteresis thresholds, static and dynamic overshoot and pulse immunity. Dileep Divekar had raised an e-mail question concerning the need for husteresis thresholds, and he was satisfied with the response. Bob also expressed some personal concerns on whether vendors would actually test for pulse immunity. However, there was value in providing a format for this information. Dave Moxley questioned that the overshoot words may be similar to RAIL, but may have different meanings. Bob stated that in RAIL, the overshoot has a different purpose, it is a design rule that may not necessary correlate with any specification value. For example, no overshoot beyond a rail could be specified to force a net to be terminated. BIRD39 was approved by unanimous vote. PACKAGE COMMITTEE REPORT Stephen Peters started the discussion by noting that BIRD36.c was a working proposal to get feedback. It covered only single line models and boards. Coupled models are set aside until some single line issues are resolved, but coupled models are intended to be included. The new name is electrical interconnect descripion (.eid). It includes SIMM models and also for connectors, Min_edge_time and capacitances. I includes the BIRD28.3 and extensions of Fork and EndFork and Pins, Nodes (and reference designators) and Paths. Dileep Divekar raised some questions on the reflector. Hank Herrmann's intended reflector response bounced (possibly due to an AMP mailer change). Hank covered Dileep's comments point-by-point. A synopsis of items covered in Hank's response are: - The numerical limits are minimums for simulator design guidance. - Pin ordering may be needed to identify input and output pins and possible internal references - this needs to be examined. - The suggestion of including G needs to be considered, but there are frequency dependencies and effects that might be beyond the scope of the analysis at this time. Also, we have yet to consider coupled matricies. - The phrase "backslash" needs to be changed to "slash". Also we need to review BIRD37.3 for this correction. [Note - This has been corrected in BIRD37.3 and in wip Version 3.0 drafts.] - Hank agreed that if the Len is not "0" to indicate a discrete component, then both L and C entries are required to create a distributed model. - NC as a method to terminate Paths internally needs to be reexamined to see if it is necessary. - The ref.designator syntax change from, for example, 17.U3 to U3.17 seems reasonable based on standard practice. Other discussions covered the capacitive global ground assumption appropriate for single line models and whether traces could split on the board and join at a different location. Stephen again invited anyone to participate in the Package Committee meetings where these issues are considered in depth. Stephen will publish the minutes on the ibis@vhdl.org relector for information. AR - Bob Ross send out Hank's response [Done]. AR - Stephen Peters set up the Package Committee meeting again for Friday, 8:30 AM to 10 AM. BIRD35.2 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS Bob Ross introduced BIRD35.2 proposing a scheduling method for calling other models for multi-staged output. A number of silicon vendors have devices which physically use phased switching. There has been a lot of reflector discussion on this subject. Bob feels that, as Greg Edlund had wrote, that it would be nice to show a simulation with and without multi-staged switching. Chris Rokusek was not aware of any possible objections to the proposed format. C. Kumar raised some valid concerns that there really may be a very strong dependency on which simulator is used. We did not have time to go into much detail, and this discussion needs to continue on the reflector. Stephen Peters suggested a "golden waveform" for the composite response and have it as part of the [Model] from which the [Driver Schedule] keyword is inserted. BIRD35.2 is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting. PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING Chris Rokusek stated that he has implemented all of the proposed changes. He did not know what percentage to select for accuracy and Bob Ross indicated that 2 percent would be a good start. Also, Bob would like the executables built with Static links for broader distribution. Ian Dodd volunteered to help test the code on NT and Windows95 in response to Chris' request for assistance. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, December 6, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD35.2 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Vacant This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. ibischk-bug@vhdl.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================