DATE: December 12, 1996 SUBJECT: 12/06/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Hank Herrmann, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser, Ray Ziesse*, Jeff Walden* Applied Simulation Technology Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou (formerly Contec) Cadence Design C. Kumar Cypress Bruce Wenniger Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli INCASES Olaf Rethmeier*, Ralf Bruening Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs, Arpad Muranyi*, John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet, [Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski Interconnectix Bob Ross*, Chris Reid Meta-Software (Sanjay Gangal) Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen Motorola Ahmed Omer National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, [Donald Snyder], Chune-Sin Yeh, [Bill Aronson] NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto), Quad Design Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek Quantic Laboratories Mike Ventham* Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala, Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia Veribest Ian Dodd, David Wiens VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan, Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions, Hrish Patel Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996: 3M Fran Hart, George Hare Actel Scott Schlachter Alcatel John Fitzpatrick* Altera Vadim von Brzeski Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Mark Leonard Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu EIA Patti Rusher* IC Works Eric Chen Mentor Graphics Kim Owen Micron Technology Brian Johnson MicroSim Ralph Perez Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao Philips Semiconductor Mike Magdaluyo Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison VTC, Inc. Bob Ward Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1/10/97 (916) 356-9200 4-35934 5448699 1/20/97 FACE TO FACE MEETING All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS Mike Ventham (an original member) from Quantic Laboratories phoned in from England. EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher indicated no change ($9,285). MINUTES REPORT, MISC. Scott Schlacter's name was corrected from Steve in the participants list. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Patti Rusher announced that the Compact Model Council is joining EIA. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported an article to be published in Electronic Design Dec. 2, 1996 issue "Ease System Simulation with IBIS Device Models" by Syed. NEW MODELS None OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on Parser Bug Stephen Peters on Version 3.0 Goal DESIGN SUPERCON97 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Syed Huq reported sending out two e-mails, one for a call for presentations and one for details of the meeting. It is scheduled from 8 AM to 5 PM on Monday, January 20. Breakfast and lunch are included. AR - RSVP to Syed Huq if you plan to attend. AR - Send Syed Huq or Bob Ross or Jon Powell the presentation idea proposal and estimated length of time. Bob Reported that several proposals have been received. Syed will send out another mailing January 2, 1997. S2IBIS2 Bob Ross reported that s2ibis2_version1.0, the first non-beta release is on vhdl.org under /pub/ibis/s2ibis. DAC97 PLANNING Bob Ross initiated discussion regarding participation in Joint EDA standards booth. Bob suggested minimum level (poster) for $2500. Dave Moxely asked who would staff it, and Patti Rusher indicated that it would be staffed by EDA people. Voted that we sign the commitment letter. AR - Bob Ross send the commitment letter to Patti Rusher. IEC PROGRESS Patti Rusher indicated that IBIS is being circulated internationally. COOKBOOK for 2.1 Chris Rokusek had sent a note requesting vendors supply the best test loads for Waveform based tables. Arpad Muranyi lead the discussion questioning dependency base on one or two resistor loads. Dileep Divekar was concerned that results based on 50 ohms would not be accurate at, say 80 ohms. Different simulators may give different results based on algorithms. The nature of IBIS models is that it has data, but the simulator algorithms determine the operation. The discussion evolved to should simulator algorithms be standardized? The ultimate reference is the transition characteristics of device itself, which cannot be standardized as an algorithm for the IBIS elements. The waveform data in a model should match the results for that load, so the question is what are the best loads be specified? Stephen Peters felt this is a cookbook issue concerning recommendations. Bob Ross felt 50 ohms to ground and Vcc provided the best load. One guidance would be to use resistive loads since loads with capacitance do not give good results in transmission line environments. AR - Simulator Vendors send to Chris Rokusek crokusek@qdt.com the best test loads for the simulator and a test load for validation. PARSER BUG DISCUSSION In response to a parser error when reserved keywords (power, gnd, nc, na) were used as pin numbers, the parser reported an error. Syed Huq felt this was correct, Bob Ross felt that is was incorrect and not the intent. This problem exists both in ibis_chk for Version 1.1 and ibischk2 for Version 2.1. After some discussion we felt this was a parser bug. AR - Bob Ross file a parser bug report. IBIS VERSION 3.0 RATIFICATION Stephen Peters raised the question of whether Version 3.0 would be ratified at the face-to-face meeting. A number of BIRDS have been approved including Buffer selection, Package model extension, Stored Charge, Specification enhancements. The Multi-staged switching and electrical interconnect descriptions are pending. Arpad Muranyi would like to see quick switch series resistance. A proposal is needed if it is to be included. After some discussion of the logistics, the goal will be to have all of the BIRDS for Version 3.0 approved by the face-to-face meeting. BIRD35.2 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS (VOTE) Bob Ross introduced BIRD35.2 proposing a scheduling method for calling other models for multi-staged output. Bob Ross would add to the BIRD35.2 a recommendation that the golden waveform also be included in the [Model] description from which [Driver Schedule] is called. It could serve as a reference, although it would not be used. This would be in the Usage Rules to produce BIRD35.3. Arpad Muranyi has two cases sent by Jon Powell showing a compelling need for this capability. (A 3.3V and 5V driver pair, and TTL/CMOS driver pair) Other needs could not be discussed, but it was stressed that multi-staged switching was embedded in driver architectures. BIRD35.3 was approved 6 to 1 with Dileep Divekar dissenting. We discussed whether we would approve this with dissent - first for IBIS. We agreed to keeping this approved, but with further discussion as part of Version 3.0 adoption. PACKAGE COMMITTEE REPORT Stephen Peters reported that Dileep Divekar's comments were being considered. The syntax was focused on a single line model. It has node based descriptions. Coupled models are under discussion. Bob Ross indicated that coupled models would probably be too controversial to standardize. So single ground models would be used. The focus of the effort is to wrap up BIRD36 for reissue. AR - Stephen Peters set up the Package Committee meeting again for Friday, 8:30 AM to 10 AM. PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING (Not Discussed) BIRD40 - SPECIFICATION ENHANCEMENT Bob Ross introduced BIRD40 in response to a RAIL committee request that the overshoot names in both IBIS and RAIL be different since they have different definitions. The only change is Overshoot_high and Overshoot low be changed to S_overshoot_high and S_overshoot_low. Dave Moxley had questioned the similarity of words with different meanings at the last IBIS meeting. BIRD40 will be scheduled for vote at the next meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, January 10, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD40 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Vacant This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. ibischk-bug@vhdl.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================