DATE: April 1, 1997 SUBJECT: 3/28/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Jeff Walden Applied Simulation Technology Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui Cadence Design C. Kumar, Don Telian Cypress Bruce Wenniger Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu* Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli INCASES Olaf Rethmeier Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi* Interconnectix Bob Ross* Mitsubushi Tam Cao Motorola Ahmed Omer National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol, Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith, NCR Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quad Design/Viewlogic Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek Quantic Laboratories (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) UniCAD Canada Ltd. (Celso Faia) Veribest Ian Dodd*, William Bell* VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions, Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997: 3M Fran Hart Actel Scott Schlachter Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Weston Beal EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fabrizio Zanella Micron Technology Brian Johnson Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam Ultratest International Charles Im Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 4/18/97 (916) 356-9200 1-137660 6974289 5/9/97 (916) 356-9200 1-137661 81111263 5/30/97 (916) 356-9200 1-137662 1259125 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new members. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher reported $10,129 in the EIA/IBIS account. Patti will work with Bob Ross concerning those members still owing payment. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S Bob Ross corrected Mike Bristol's name (from Brisbol) from National Semi- conductor in all of the 1997 minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Patti Rusher reported much discussion at the PCB West Design Conference EDA Face-to-Face Roundtable session concerning IBIS models and the need for more models. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that IBIS was mentioned in "Digital-System Designers Meet EMI Challenges", Computer Design, March 1997, pp. 53-56. Bob also reported an article in EDN, March 14, 1997 by Tim Minnick and Hank Herrmann of AMP titled "Using Multiline Models in Dual- and Single- Point Grounding Configurations", pp. 93-100. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Jon Powell updated the EIA/IBIS Model page with a new Quality Semiconductor link and new links to Texas Instruments and Cypress Semiconductor, both with many new models. Jon cautioned that the TI models have incomplete pinouts. Bob Ross reported that this is expected to be fixed. The new links for TI, Cypress, and Quality are: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/asl/models/ibis.htm http://www.cypress.com/cypress/tech_sup/web_tech/ibis_top.html http://www.qualitysemi.com/main/device.html Syed Huq reports that National Semiconductor has released two Interface two IBIS models: 261v31tm.ibs (3.3V RS-422 Quad Differential Driver) and 261v32tm.ibs (3.3V RS-422 Quad Differential Receiver). These are available on the National model site. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE 1997 IBIS MEETING PLANNING Patti Rusher is scheduling a meeting room for the EIA/IBIS Summit meeting on Thursday, June 12, 1997. Jon Powell reported delivering the IBIS poster information. Patti stated that Jon was the only one who followed the instructions. INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS Patti Rusher stated that IBIS Version 2.1 ratification paperwork is going forward. EIA JAPAN I/O INTERFACE MODEL PROPOSAL Bob Ross gave a report on the joint EIA/IBIS and EIAJ working group meeting held Wednesday, March 19, 1997 in Santa Clara during the PCB West Design Conference. The purpose was for Electronic Industries Association of Japan (EIAJ) Project Group Chair Hideki Fukuda from Hitachi to present "Standard for I/O Interface Model", Draft Version 0.0. Bob reported that he also met privately Monday and Tuesday and supplied much IBIS information. The Wednesday meeting was attended by: Hideki Fukuda, Hitachi Bob Ross, Interconnectix Syed Huq, National Semiconductor Patti Rusher, EIA Dileep Divekar, Applied Simulation Technology (USA) Norio Matsui, Applied Simulation Technology C. Kumar, Cadence Deepak Mehta, Cadence Shinichi Maeda, KAW/USA Ian Dodd, Veribest David Wiens, Veribest Mike Ventham, Quantic EMC, Inc. (Also briefly, Hilary Kahn, University of Manchester) Fukuda-san stated the purpose of the proposal was to provide a more detailed format for better accuracy and to leverage off the possibility of a unified Spice-compatible format so that IC suppliers would need to provide only one model. The proposal covered IC details with buffers and interconnections, package details, and module details. The buffers consisted of behavioral tables of one, two, or three dimensions. All interconnections were based on nodal descriptions with Spice-like formats. Model levels for Signal Integrity, Power Integrity, and EMI were proposed (no work has been done yet concerning shape definitions needed for EMI package and device descriptions). The proposal was positioned to do detailed analysis for validation beyond the initial design using IBIS models. At the meeting, it was suggested that the detailed models could also be used beforehand to validate the component operation and assumptions. The proposal showed that IBIS models could be created using the data in the I/O Interface Model. Fukuda-san had meetings with Avant! (Meta-Software) and Epic, and he reported encouragement privately to Bob. Stephen Peters asked about the schedule, and Bob Reported that Fukuda-san personally would like to see: Version 1.0 June 1997 Version 2.0 September 1997 Ratification by EIAJ December 1997 The action items were for EIA/IBIS to review again the nodal description (an agenda item below) and for the EIAJ Project Group to find out what IC vendors are committed to supplying models of the I/O Interface Model format. Patti Rusher suggested that EIAJ get in touch with Britt Brooks of the EIA Compact Model Council because they are also investigating behavioral models. Bob will follow up on this with Patti. Jon Powell asked if the model has been prototyped and tested. Bob reported no. Stephen was interested in more details concerning Avant!'s support. Ian Dodd introduced William Bell to discuss tabular data models for MOS devices in Spice. Bill stated that a VeriBest's internal version of Spice handles tabular data models well. The standard versions including BSIM levels 1, 2, and 3 from Berkeley are equation based. Level 3 is the simplest with about 20 parameters. It could be an accepted basis for a non-proprietary model that Jon felt that equation based models were best for interpreting the parasitics. He felt the tables were difficult to scale (even though scaling information was provided.) He was also concerned with what the models omitted and with how available the models would be. So a non-proprietary format such as BSIM 3 could be advantageous. Jon stated that there may be nothing gained by reinventing Spice. Ian stated that most transmission line simulators support IBIS. The standard Spice model syntax is supported in some simulators. Syed Huq pointed out that I/O Interface Model format was intended to handle problems (power integrity and EMI) that cannot be handled well using IBIS formatted models. AR - Patti Rusher forward information to contact Britt Brooks to Bob Ross and also forward the next meeting agenda [Done]. IBIS COOKBOOK PROGRESS Stephen Peters reported no further progress on an Intel internal version. He still is waiting for some waveform data. Bob Ross felt it might be useful to have some information on how to qualify good models since some public IBIS models need more work. Someone asked if it the cookbook should support Version 3.0 of IBIS, but Bob felt that limiting it to Version 2.1 was OK at this time to deal with some current interpretation issues. Syed Huq asked if the cook- book would be out by DAC97. Stephen said he would try to get it out by that time. ACCOUNTS ON EIA FOR SOURCE CODE DISTRIBUTION Bob Ross raised a question originally asked by Chris Rokusek whether an account could be set up on EIA for the member companies so that source code for parsers (such as ibischk2+) could more easily be distributed. Syed Huq commented on the logistics inconvenience of managing more accounts. After some discussion it was felt that e-mail distribution was preferred. FAQ UPDATE Syed Huq reported that some information needs to be updated in the FAQ section of the IBIS Home page. He will make some obvious corrections. He also requested people to look at the FAQs and propose changes and new questions. AR - Everyone review the FAQ's and provide suggestions to Syed Huq. S2IBIS2 ISSUES AND NT There have been reflector discussions regarding s2ibis2 aborting on certain example IV data spice deck runs using HSPICE. This problem was also appearing in the NT version being worked on by Veribest. Bob Ross felt this problem could be associated with the current version of HSPICE (h96) and heard that a small resistance in series with some nodes may fix the problem. PACKAGE COMMITTEE REPORT Stephen Peters reported that the committee discussed the EIAJ proposal. He also stated that committee activities were on hold waiting Jon Powell's connector model information. Jon had finally received all of the connector Spice model and matrix information, but his window-of-available-time to work on this had passed. He will pass along the information and his initial proposal to Stephen with the expectation that the connector model issue will be moved back to the IBIS Open Forum. BIRD36.2 ELECTRICAL DESCRIPTIONS OF BOARDS Stephen Peters has just updated BIRD36.2 and will issue BIRD36.3 with some editorial corrections (lower case for model files), Power and Gnd word case insensitivity clarifications, and Series element constraint that it be in the same net. He also stated that the L and R elements themselves can be used for series elements. Stephen mentioned that the electrical board description will not handle typ, min, and max cases per a comment by Dave Fogel. Separate board files would have to be created to analyze these corners. Dileep Divekar raised the issue concerning whether cross-talk analysis was necessary. Stephen responded that the full EDIF 4 0 0 would handle this. The electrical board description does not handle this. Responses on the reflector indicated that people really needed the electrical board description, even with out coupling information, since the alternative is to use lumped package models in IBIS to specify SIMMs and boards. The BIRD36.3 vote was deferred until the next meeting so that the changes can be reviewed. NODAL DESCRIPTION DISCUSSION Bob Ross introduced the Nodal description discussion as a follow-on to the EIAJ I/O Interface Model proposal discussion. Stephen Peters thought it would be appropriate for complex packages with mesh power and ground planes. An alternative is to use the mechanical data bases for analysis. Detailed transistor level IC's with Spice-like nodal based interconnections are quite useful to handle the ground and power noise interactions. Stephen questioned what problems are EIAJ trying to solve. Jon Powell stated that just defining new formats may not contribute to the problems we are currently solving. One suggestion was to have a standardized Spice interface regarding Spice formats (such as input, output, enable, and four power rails). Jon raised the issue concerning many nodes and their interactions if one "Vcc" supply is used for all buffers. He envisioned an extension to IBIS with a behavioral wrapper for Spice models. Jon felt that the Spice algorithms themselves were not mathematically stable, whereas the behavioral ones were guaranteed to be stable. Some vendors have Spice hooks within their products to do Spice simulation already. Bob mentioned that he will provide comments on syntax and on the node mapping structure (which seems to bypass the already existing subcircuit calling conventions. Jon wanted more detail concerning what algorithms are used to determine the time transition characteristics. He felt that the capacitance and other parasitics were important factors. Bob mentioned that simulators drive the transitions, whereas it appears that the stimuli are embedded in the I/O Interface Model. (However, they could be controlled externally in some manner.) Bob plans to communicate support of EIAJ continuing their approach since it can lead to future extensions of IBIS and also provide some solutions to problems which cannot be handled well using the current format. BIRD41.1 - MODELING SERIES SWITCHABLE DEVICES Bob Ross reported no progress on BIRD41.1 since he has not contacted John Fitzpatrick, the author. Arpad Muranyi questioned whether there were responses to Bob's comment concerning defining logical states in the IBIS format. Bob reported no comments. Bob will contact John to move forward on BIRD41.1. MODELING EARLY CLAMPS IN IBIS Arpad Muranyi reported no further work. Bob Ross indicated that he would like to have all of the BIRDs for Version 3.0 approved by the DAC meeting in June. We have only 3 meetings to go. Bob may assist on this proposal. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, April 18, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD36.3 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design/Viewlogic 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 SECRETARY: Vacant This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. ibischk-bug@vhdl.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, or send an e-mail request to the automatic archive server, archive@vhdl.org. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================