DATE: October 20, 1997 SUBJECT: 10/17/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Jeff Walden Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*, Fred Balistreri Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz Cypress Bruce Wenniger Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu* Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora* INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis, Will Hobbs, Frank Kern* Interconnectix Bob Ross* Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden, Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol, Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith NCR Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Peivand Tehrani Graham Bell VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997: 3M [Fran Hart] Actel Scott Schlachter Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace EIA Patti Rusher EMC Fabrizio Zanella Hewlett Packard, Boise Paul Gregory* Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa IBM Brad Herrman Interface Technology Dan Waterloo* Micron Technology Brian Johnson Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam Symmetry Andy Hughes Tandem Mark Simpson* TRW Ray Steele Ultratest International Charles Im Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 11/7/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159555 4855377 12/05/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159556 6788873 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Mark Simpson from Tandem is interested in IBIS to off load nets that do not need detailed HSPICE analysis. Paul Gregory of Hewlett Packard, Boise is interested in IBIS modeling techniques for high frequency design. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Hewlett Packard is being moved back to full membership status since the issue about the invoices is being resolved. Bob Ross does not know of any expenses since the last report of $5,272. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S No corrections were reported. The AR's will be dealt with during the meeting. Arpad Muranyi reported that the Minutes are coming in as an attachment - a minor inconvenience. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS It looks like the slow IBIS reflector response that Bob Ross discussed at the last meeting turned out to be a local issue only. This has been fixed. Bob will move the mail system over to Majordomo since all of the major groups on eda.org are using this system. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported several changes to the EIA/IBIS Web Site. The Home page format is modular. Bob Ross' article "Practical Issues with IBIS Models" presented at the PCB Design Conference East in September 1997 is now in HTML format under the Articles section. A link to the new IBIS Cookbook has been added for downloading only in the Tools section. The document is located on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip since it is expected to be updated at various times. A missing dV/dt definition in the Cookbook Version 1.1 has been added per a comment by Matthew Flora. Some Roster changes and updates have been made for several companies. Syed plans to provide an FAQ on reporting bugs. Bob reported that Eric Blomberg has written "IBIS "Models" Come of Age" in Printed Circuit Design, October 1997, pp. 19-21. Bob also reported a brief mention of IBIS in "New Paradigms Ensure High- Performance PCBs" in the October issue of Computer Design, pp. 60-69. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Syed Huq reported that he had sent out a message regarding a new SuperI/O model available from the National Semiconductor IBIS Site. Bob Ross reported that International Microcircuits, Inc. has an FTP site with password protected IBIS models at: ftp://ftp.best.com/pub.i/imiweb8/ibis A marketing contact is listed in the contacts.txt file to obtain the passwords to unlock the files. Also one can go to the http://www.imicorp.com location to get more information about any part and how to contact the company. Bob Ross reported that Quicklogic has an IBIS library under development. There was a copyright confusion mistake which has been cleared up according to Matthew Flora. The link is: http://www.quicklogic.com/techinfo/techinfo.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Arpad Muranyi on some IBIS models with stair step tables. INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - As previously reported, Bob Ross stated that the vote report needs to be approved before Patti Rusher will issue the press release. - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - This work item has been dropped as previously reported. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob understands that this is now a formal work item under IEC. He does not have its number. DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT Syed Huq volunteered that National would be willing to host the annual IBIS Summit meeting held with DesignCon98 (formerly Design SuperCon) in Santa Clara, California. If others Bay Area companies want to volunteer as Host, they are welcome to submit their request. Bob Ross stated that unless we hear of any requests we will assume that National will serve as host. Syed plans to send out information regarding the meeting. Like last year, we plan some technical presentations and discussions related to IBIS issues and IBIS usage. The meeting is planned on Monday, January 26, 1998, the day before DesignCon98 begins. Arpad Muranyi commented that high-frequency modeling might be an interesting topic based on the discussion raised by Paul Gregory. Arpad is concurrently trying to resolve delay differences with Spice transmission line models. Bob indicated that there are three IBIS related presentations submitted to DesignCon98 which extends from Tuesday through Thursday, January 27-29, 1997. Also, there may be a modeling panel session. Bob is suggesting that these activities occur on Tuesday, the day after the IBIS Summit. DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT Bob had received an initial suggestion from High Design Technology of Italy regarding an IBIS meeting along with DATE98 Conference in February, 1998 in Paris. After some followup with several individuals and after sending out an inquiry on the IBIS reflectors, there does seem to be interest in such a meeting. Bob has followed up with the French Mentor Graphics field office regarding logistics of cost and scheduling of such a meeting. Bob indicated that he would welcome other European companies or European field offices to join in hosting the meeting. Based on the response, there appears initial interest from HDT, Alcatel, Siemens, Thomson, and HP France. Also several U.S. IBIS members expressed interest in attending. Several people plan to do presentations, and others suggested a variety of interesting topics to be sent out later. Several people did not want a Sunday meeting. So the only dates now being investigated are Thursday, February 26, 1998 and possibly Monday, February 23, 1998 at hotels at or nearby the DATE98 conference. The sense of the committee was to proceed. Everyone thought it was a good especially since IBIS now is an IEC standard. Bob indicated that we need to firm up commitments by the end of October. He will work with several IBIS officers to help make some of the decisions. (Added later: the DATE Conference is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available at http://www.date-conference.com). S2IBIS FOR NT Bob Ross reported that s2ibis_v1.3 for NT has been posted on the Veribest Web site. s2ibis2_v2.1 is still under development so that part of the AR remains. Arpad Muranyi had raised as a new issue the concern that some IBIS models have stair step tables. Bob responded that this was a result of a known problem with s2ibis2_v2.1 that does not have the s2ibis2_fix code. Without the fix, the table resolution can be as low as two digits in a manner that can cause up to a 10% discontinuity. The EIA/IBIS Home page now points to a directory where s2ibis2_fix exists. The VeriBest conversion should have the fix code included. AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site. S2IBIS3 PROJECT Bob Ross reported that R. Sanjeev (who also goes by Presi) is planning to work on s2ibis3 after looking into some bug fixes for s2ibis2. He is a Masters degree student at the Indian Institute of Technology, Madras India. He has done IBIS model development while working at Cadence using s2ibis. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross reported that he has made the editing pass to simplify and reduce the variations on the terms used in IBIS Version 3.0. He still has not broken it into manageable sections. When this is done, this will be put into the work in progress directory. The AR is still in effect. Stephen Peters asked and Bob responded that the BNF AR still needs to be done. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0 and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory. BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA No discussion. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora plans to implement the bug fixes reported at the last meeting as part of an ibischk2+ version 2.115. This correction will serve as a new base line for ibischk3 development. AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2 version 2.115. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT After last meeting, Bob Ross sent out the request for purchase orders to support the ibischk3 parser development. So far, has either copies of purchase orders of commitments to generate purchase orders from: Applied Simulation Technology Incases Interconnectix Hyperlynx At the meeting, Frank Kern indicated that the Intel purchase order was being signed off. Syed Huq indicated that National Semiconductor's purchase order should be expected next week. Bob indicated that the EIA IBIS Open Forum will own the source code. The license owner will have the right to use the source code or to modify it to generate utilities and products for sale. The license is for the entire corporation, consistent with the membership rules of EIA - one vote per entire company. The source code itself is not to be redistributed. Several individuals raised questions on these points, and Bob plans to work with Ken Willis of Cadence to craft the appropriate wording. This is needed for Cadence to issue a purchase order. Bob indicated that based on some private e-mail, several other companies were moving forward on issuing purchase orders. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters indicated that there is no further progress. Frank Kern still may do an introductory section, but is currently involved in company projects. All the ARs are carried forward. AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model) Arpad Muranyi - Example 2 Stephen Peters - Example 3 AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement". BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross noted that there was reflector discussion on issues related to BIRD42.3. Arpad Muranyi asked how the discussion related to ground and power bounce. Bob Ross felt that from one point of view, BIRD42.3 provided extra information for giving more accurate answers for the buffer only. Stephen Peters thought that the thrust of BIRD42.3 was to describe a 3-terminal device. From another point of view, it could be used for a more accurate analysis. In conjunction with the [Pin Mapping] keyword, the buffer details for bounce can be described with greater first-order accuracy. Bob also noted that there are other signals such as internal clock networks that add to the internal bounce effect through internal feedback. These can be as significant as the bounce contributed by the buffers themselves. These effects could be added though another method. Bob commented that one of the threads in the BIRD42.3 discussion related to DC Sessions example itself. The example implied a need for using two waveforms to describe the independent action of the top and bottom transistors. Bob modeled it in Spice, but did not have time to finish it for distribution. Bob feels that a necessary element in the discussion is the algorithms used to process the information. Raj Raghuram suggested that some formal academic research might be helpful in resolving the modeling of bounce effects. He will contact some individuals regarding such a project. Bob and Raj also commented on the EIAJ III proposal that gives a more detailed description of the internal chip power distribution and uses table based transistor models. This description contains more information that is useful for buffer bounce analysis. Except for this general discussion, BIRD42.3 is not moving forward. A next step may be a minor revision to map it in with the current Version 3.0 text. At some future time we will consider this issue for resolution. SWITCHING TERMINATORS Arpad Muranyi reported that he will work with Bob Ross concerning describing the characteristics so that its features can be formulated into a BIRD. Bob reported that he has a rough idea of what is needed for simulation. However, he has some interaction type questions to best fit the functionality into the IBIS format. Some of these relate to which rail sources or sinks the current to be compatible for future bounce analysis. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, November 7, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================