DATE: 11/11/97 SUBJECT: 11/7/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Jeff Walden Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*, Fred Balistreri Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz Cypress Bruce Wenniger Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu* Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora INCASES Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis, Will Hobbs, Frank Kern Interconnectix Bob Ross*, Neven Orhanovic* Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden, Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol, [Peter Laflamme], [Kevin Smith] NCR Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani Graham Bell VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997: 3M [Fran Hart] Actel Scott Schlachter Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fabrizio Zanella Hewlett Packard, Boise Paul Gregory Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa IBM Brad Herrman Interface Technology Dan Waterloo Micron Technology Brian Johnson Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen* S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam Symmetry Andy Hughes Tandem Mark Simpson TRW Ray Steele Ultratest International Charles Im Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 12/5/97 (916) 356-9200 3-159556 6788873 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Todd Andersen of Philips Semiconductor has been developing IBIS models for clock drivers, BiCMOS and other devices. Philips uses an internal translation program adapted from NCSU s2ibis and a process for converting directly from IBIS netlists using an internal product PSTAR. Todd intends to put the IBIS models on the Philips web site. Philips would be willing to send IBIS models to EDA vendors for validation. Neven Orhanovic of Interconnectix joined late to participate in the technical discussion of BIRD45, which he co-authored. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher said that there was no update. Patti recalls that the IBIS account has $6,008 (although it has been previously reported as $5,272). REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S Bob Ross changed Matt to Matthew Flora in one location. The AR's will be talked about during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported that another IBIS East Coast Users Group meeting is tentatively planned on Thursday, December 4, 1997, 3:00 pm at a site to be determined. Bob mentioned some of the possible agenda items including: what is working well, how to validate models, review of IBIS tools, and what are elements needed for system designers (such a low cost simulator). This meeting is a local meeting for face-to-face interaction. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported that the FAQ section has an updated response concerning where to find forms for reporting bugs and where to send them regarding ibischk, s2ibis, and s2iplt. Syed also reported changing the Interconnectix link to a new page under the Mentor Graphics parent organization page. Bob Ross reported that IBIS was mentioned in "New Simulation Tools Help PC Boards Meet EMC Requirements", Electronic Design, October 13, 1997, pp. 93-98. Bob also indicated that Dr. Howard Johnson's site now has the "IBIS" article and several other articles that reference IBIS (including the one printed in Printed Circuit Design on IBIS) under http://www.sigcon.com/straight.htm NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported more IBIS models at Cypress Semiconductor. Several other links also exist for Intel and TI IBIS models: http://developer.intel.com/design/pro/devtools http://cove.intel.com/template/design/tpvtool/arch.cfm?architecture=1 (Search) http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/datatran/app_supp.htm Raj Raghuram asked if any vendors were shipping IBIS Version 3.0 models. Arpad Muranyi commented that he has included the [Model Selector] keyword in some models within comments for Version 2.1 files. The user can upgrade the model the EDA tool supports the keyword. After some additional discussion, no one knew of Version 3.0 IBIS models being shipped yet. Some tools currently support portions of Version 3.0. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on publishing IBIS Specification in vendor documentation. PUBLISHING IBIS SPECIFICATION Bob Ross introduced this new item by indicating that there have been requests over the years from several sources on getting permission to publish IBIS Specifications in commercial documentation (or products). Bob indicated that a general policy of granting that right for fee of $1000 to the company had been discussed. However, it was not formalized or fully understood. Bob proposed that the EIA IBIS Open Forum would grant a permission letter to any organization that wants to publish an IBIS Specification for the fee of $1000. This would apply for each major release of the IBIS document as a one-time charge. The current major releases are IBIS Version 1.1, IBIS Version 2.1 (also ANSI/EIA-656 and IEC 62014-1), and IBIS Version 3.0. Upon payment of the fee, Patti Rusher would issue the EIA permission letter. Prior to the vote, some topics were discussed. Bob noted that the Web Site versions of IBIS contained the IBIS text, but the official specification for IBIS Version 2.1 is distributed for a nominal fee by Global Engineering. It contains the necessary header sections and proper nomenclature. The text the various versions of IBIS including work under development is currently available on the EIA IBIS Home page. The committee needs easy access for the subsequent development. Patti noted that there is funding next year for upgrading the EIA Web Site for password only access. So the IBIS material could be moved there in the future. Syed Huq said that maybe only member companies could access the Specifications. Bob stated that this could be a future discussion, but we really needed wide-spread distribution to all sources as a practical matter for standards development and for wide-spread usage of IBIS. Patti indicated that the IBIS standard would need to be stabilized before the access should be restricted. Bob noted that one of the motivating factors is that many organizations want the permission mechanism in place so there is no question regarding copyright issues. The fee of $1000 is considered nominal for any size organization. Because many documents are now embedded into the software and distributed with the software product, the permission applies to any form of distribution of the Standard in a product or document. Stephen Peters asked if this applies to the Cookbook document as well, and Bob answered no, just to the IBIS Standards. It does not apply to any other document or free utility. After some discussion this proposal was approved by unanimous vote. INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher is still waiting for the official approval of the unanimous vote from IEC. When approval is reached, the IEC nomenclature will be added to the ANSI/EIA-656 document. Patti will also issue a press release. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Patti Rusher and Raj Raghuram did not have any further status. Patti needs to review the final minutes of the last IEC meeting to see if it is a work item with a number. DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT Syed Huq reported on plans for the EIA IBIS Summit Meeting on Monday, January 26, 1997. He has reserved a room at the Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa Clara Convention Center. He needs final confirmation before sending out the information. In the last years, the Summit has attracted about 40 people for presentations and discussions. National Semiconductor will also be providing the breakfasts and buffet lunch. The meeting will be from 8 am to 5 pm, with the actual sessions beginning around 9 am. As before, electronic copies are requested of the presentations before the meeting so Syed can have copies available at the session. We did a polling of attendees at the meeting, and most said they planned to attend. Arpad Muranyi commented that high frequency issues using IBIS would be a good topic. Upon further reflection, he stated that he may have the resources (e.g., Spice models and measurement equipment) to do research and provide the presention - if he has time. Bob Ross reported that he has been working with the people for DesignCon98 which is scheduled Tuesday thru Thursday, January 27-29, 1998 at the Santa Clara Convention Center. The three modeling related presentations are scheduled on Tuesday, the day following the IBIS Summit meeting. In the late afternoon at 4:30 pm there will be a panel session on "How Good Are The Currently Available IBIS Models". So attendees should plan on at least both Monday through Tuesday evening for IBIS and modeling related presentations and discussions. DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT Bob Ross reported that we have reserved Thursday, February 26, 1998 of a European IBIS Summit meeting in Paris, France. It is currently planned to be all day at a room in the Concorde-Lafayette hotel, the day after the trade show portion of the DATE98 conference. The DATE98 conference and exhibition will be held at the adjacent Le Palais des Congress de Paris Porte Mailot. The Mentor Graphics Paris field office is hosting the meeting, but other companies are welcome to join in to reinforce that this is a vendor neutral Summit. Smaller companies may also join in for some of the smaller expenses. Bob will be sending out information for early planning, and preparation of presentations. Bob indicated that even though he will do most the initial organization, he is looking for a European participation and presentations to solicit new ideas, experiences and issues. IBIS and EMC remains as a potential discussion topic. He has already gotten indications of participation from European IBIS users and suppliers. The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available at: http://www.date-conference.com S2IBIS FOR NT No report, the AR remains. From a question from Stephen Peters, Bob Ross indicated that this is unrelated to the s2ibis3 activity that R. sanjeev (Presi) is planning in India. AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross posted the first editorial pass of IBIS Version 3.0 as /pub/ibis/wip/ver3_1a.ibs It contains some language consistency or terminology elimination. Bob gave some examples such as standardizing on the usage of "component" and "device", and eliminating "part", changing "silicon vendors" to "semiconductor vendors", using "pin name" instead of "pin number". In addition a table of contents and the beginnings of a General Introduction section has been added to help partition the sections in a clearer manner. Steven Peters and Bob had met a while ago to discuss these changes, and they are finally been implemented and posted according to one AR. Bob noted that he found on review several minor errors, so he will provide occasional updates. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross noted that we need to start looking at how to address BIRD44. Bob plans to make this a discussion topic at the next meeting. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS No report. The AR remains. Bob Ross noted that he and Chris Rokusek discussed one of the Bugs, and it might not be in the area that Chris had worked. So someone else may be more appropriate to address it. AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2 version 2.115. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross met with the contractor, Atul Agarwal, of APT Software Avenues Pvt Ltd, and Atul plans to start work now on reviewing the Specification and plans to begin the implementation when he returns to India in December. Bob communicated to Atul that we still do not have financial commitment in place yet. However, he has solid commitments from five companies, and has been tracking what appear to be at least five more purchase orders in process. So he is confident that we will have the commitment needed for the contract. Bob showed Atul the old BNF, the old test matrix, and the tree diagram to help in the parser development project. The test matrix was originally done by Stephen Peters and Bob. Bob indicated that it needs to be extended for the Version 3.0 functions. This will probably happen concurrent with the parser development. We also need IBIS Version 3.0 examples for testing, similar to the examples needed in for the Cookbook project. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters indicated no progress due to other projects. All the ARs are carried forward. AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model) Arpad Muranyi - Example 2 Stephen Peters - Example 3 AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement". BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS No discussion. BIRD45 DYNAMIC CLAMPS Bob Ross introduced BIRD45 in response to the switching terminator agenda item. The basic concept is that two additional clamp tables are introduced with rules consistent with the existing [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] tables. The new clamps are are [Dynamic GND Clamp] and [Dynamic POWER Clamp]. Bob indicated that he felt this was easier that to try to create extensions to the existing keywords. For the purposes of discussion, Bob talked only about the [Dynamic GND Clamp]. The [Dynamic POWER Clamp] would be similar. The [Dynamic GND Clamp] would be referenced to the [GND Clamp Reference] voltage. It contains the typ, min, max tables. As proposed it has the same range and rules (100 point limit) as [GND Clamp]. However, this may change. The proposal documents six subparameters to do the shifting of the clamp relative to the [Gnd Clamp Reference]. They include the offset voltage, V_offset, and the T_delay, T_on, T_width, and T_off to control the delay, ramp time on, duration, and ramp time off of a complete cycle. The complete pulse would be triggered by a falling edge threshold value V_trigger and would in practice occur only during the falling response to dynamically clamp undershoot. This specification applies for all three tables. Another key aspect includes the fact that any diode kickback effects (related to the TT parameter) are not modeled. One open issue is that the internal structure contains an FET tied to another (undocumented) rail which could be souring of sinking some dynamic currents. This rail might need to be identified in some manner in a proposal revision to relate this to any power and ground bounce analysis. With this introduction some discussion points were raised. Arpad Muranyi commented that this structure and more advanced variations were being built and distributed to customers. Bob confirmed that there had been customer requests to support this new technology. Arpad questioned the V_trigger for the [Dynamic Power Clamp] would be referenced in a parallel manner to the [Power Clamp Reference]. This was inconsistent since both Vinl and Vinh are reference to the same rail. He also indicated that the triggering mechanism could be more complicated and also that some devices may start at the on (shifted state) even without a trigger. One proposal was to allow negative delay so that the clamp is always on. More work is needed to deal with the variations of switching initiation methods that have been implemented. Arpad would have preferred a waveform description of the T_on and T_off shape. Bob thought the simpler approach should be adequate since there was no way to get this information directly. Arpad tentatively agreed for this proposal since it could be added later if it is really needed. Arpad also indicated that there were significant variations in the pulse shape and offset for typ, min, and max conditions. So Bob and Neven Orhanovic indicated that the proposal would have to be restructured to support typ, min, and max subparameters. Arpad wanted to review the proposal in terms of some functionality that may be coming in the near future. In particular he wanted to know if the method could be generalized for [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables. Dave Moxley asked if the [Driver Selection] keyword in Version 3.0 could be applied to provide this extra functionality. [Driver Selection] references any number of [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables (with possible waveform control) and some of the tables could be adapted though differences in values to produce the desired effect. Arpad did not know and thought it was worth investigating. Neven indicated that he had a private question regarding BIRD45 from C. Kumar, but there was no reflector discussion on the subject. Arpad stated that he may want to meet directly with Bob and Neven next Friday (since he could plan to be in the area anyway), and work out more details. (This has been arranged off-line.) MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION Bob Ross commented briefly on the reflector discussions on low cost simulators and IBIS to Spice conversion. He indicated that several vendors do IBIS to Spice conversion in commercial products, and also some companies have in-house utilities for this. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, December 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================