DATE: 2/20/98 SUBJECT: 2/13/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram* Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Boise Paul Gregory High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley* Mentor Graphics Mark Noneman Interconnectix Bob Ross* Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Tom Dagostino Mitsubishi Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek* VeriBest Ian Dodd VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Shariq Rahma EIA Patti Rusher EMC Fawn Engelmann Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme NESA Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen* Seagate Vanessa Howard Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode February 26, 1998 EUROPEAN EIA IBIS SUMMIT - NO BRIDGE March 13, 1998 (916) 356-9200 5-23353 2913463 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT No report. Bob Ross mentioned that Patti Rusher had issued invoices to attendees at the EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting on January 26, 1998 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S Bob Ross has done minor editorial spelling correction on some previous minutes. The Mitsubishi name is corrected in the January 26, 1998 Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. In the last few days there was intermittent ftp access to eda.org due to a hacker attack and security hole. This has been resolved. Matthew Flora announced that a new version of the IBIS Visual Editor will be made available as soon as the HyperLynx system administrator uploads it. It has minor corrections and an updated version of ibischk2+. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported that the Digital logo and links are on the Poster page of the EIA IBIS Home Page. The Model Provider Link was removed since the list is not being maintained. Bob Ross reported that he will present "IBIS Modeling Tips and Advances" at the PCB Design Conference West in Santa Clara, March 23-26, 1998. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE None reported. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes Stephen Peters on the Model Review Committee INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reported that he has no new information on the status. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob reported that the EIAJ subcommittee plans to have a web site in early March with access to Version 1.0 of the document, which is being translated into English. - IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob reported that a meeting of national experts has been set up in Paris on Friday, February 27, 1998. Bob is the US representative. Other national representatives are invited from England, France, Germany, Denmark, and Italy. This meeting is conducted under IEC TC93/WG5. The French group will make a report at the European IBIS Summit on IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status. IBIS EAST MEETING Greg Edlund reported on the IBIS User's Group meeting held Thursday, February 12, 1998 at EMC. The DesignCon EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was reviewed. Greg also mentioned that Paul Galloway has been giving brief tutorials on IBIS keywords. The IBIS East committee is working on establishing a Web Site for material they are collecting. One participant suggested that a one-day crash course on IBIS would be useful. Ed Sayre would be interested in setting up such a course and would have others contribute to it. Stephen Peters and others expressed interest in such a course. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, March 19, 1998 for 3 PM to 5 PM. DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT The EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was held on Monday, January 26, 1998 at the Santa Clara Convention Center and just before the DesignCon show. Syed Huq reported that many of the presentations at the EIA IBIS Summit have been uploaded on eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan98. The Summit was very successful with 49 people attending and with many good presentations. Bob Ross thanked Syed for handling the arrangements and National Semiconductor for sponsoring the meeting. DESIGNCON98 The DesignCon presentations on Tuesday, January 27, 1998 in the Signal Integrity track involved IBIS model issues. These were well attended. Syed reported that the panel on How Good are IBIS Models? turned out well. The moderator, Jim Lipmann of EDN Magazine, did not have to ask any questions, and the question/answer session continued even after Jim left. Bob noted that Greg Edlund and Bob Haller of Digital (along with Mentor Graphics for sponsoring the booth) got the best Demo Booth Award at the show. Bob also noted that Margery Conner of the DesignCon98 committee was very helpful in working with us and getting IBIS listed as a DesignCon98 sponsor. DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT The DATE98 Conference will be held Monday thru Thursday, February 23-26, 1998 in Paris France. Several IBIS and PCB Design related activities are scheduled. The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available at: http://www.date-conference.com - PCB Symposium - Wednesday, February 25, 1998 Bob Ross reported that seven EDA companies (Cadence, Incases, Mentor Graphics, VeriBest, Viewlogic, Xynetix, and Zuken-Redac) are co-sponsors of a vender-neutral (i.e., no product promotion), informative, all-day event. Bob outlined the currently planned program which is scheduled from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM: 10:00: Opening Address, Lutz Treutler of the FED 10:15: Viewlogic, Guy DeBurgh 10:45: Mentor Graphics, Bob Ross 11:15: Xynetix, Andrew Jones 11:45: Incases, Torsten Maeser and Werner Rissiek 12:15: Buffet Luncheon 1:30: VeriBest, David Weins 2:00: Cadence, Paul Galloway 2:30: Zuken-Redac, Anthony Cutler 3:00: Round Table Discussion The Round Table Discussion will have representatives from several EDA companies and also former EIA IBIS Open Forum Chair. Will Hobbs. - European IBIS Summit - Thursday, February 26, 1998 Bob reported that about 41 people have signed up so far, and he is looking for about 45 to 50. The meeting is hosted by Cadence. High Design Technology, (HDT) and Mentor Graphics. There are about 14 possible presentations. Bob presented a tentative schedule, and the one shown below with updates after the meeting is still tentative. Some last minute confirmations are still needed. PRELIMINARY AGENDA EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING February 26, 1998 Paris, France 8:30 REFRESHMENTS 9:00 Welcome, IBIS Activities Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 9:25 IBIS Users Group Paul Galloway, Cadence, USA 9:45 Use of IBIS in Alcatel John Fitzpatrick, Alcatel, France 10:25 IBIS Model Development at National Semiconductor Corporation Syed Huq, National Semiconductor, USA 10:45 BREAK 11:00 IBIS, Measurements vs Spice Tom Dagostino, Zeelan Technology/Mentor Graphics, USA 11:30 Required IBIS Enhancements Gerald Bannert, Siemens, Germany 12:00 Challenges in Using IBIS in High Frequency Applications Prakash Radhakrishnan, Intel, USA 12:30 LUNCH 13:30 IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status Christian Marot, Siemens, France 14:00 IBIS and Radiation Analysis (Incases) Werner Rissiek, Incases, Germany 14:30 IBIS Models for EMC and High-Frequency Devices Razvan Ene, High Design Technology, Italy 15:15 BREAK 15:30 SI-Analysis with HSPICE Based on IBIS Behavioral Models Bernhard Unger, Siemens, Germany 16:00 Problems in V-T Curve Modeling and Simulation C. Kumar, Cadence, USA 16:30 BIRD42.3 Algorithm Considerations Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 16:45 GROUP DISCUSSION Technical Comments IBIS Usage Comments Questions About the EIA IBIS Open Forum Forming a European IBIS Users Group 17:00 ADJOURN S2IBIS2 Bob Ross mentioned that the VeriBest AR for an NT version of s2ibis2 is dropped because VeriBest cannot commit someone to do this as originally planned. Bob asked Matthew Flora if he would check whether HyperLynx would be interested in the doing the conversion. Bob also mentioned that another person that may be willing to make public his implementation. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross reported that he still plans to put an unofficial IBIS ver3_1b.ibs update in the /pub/ibis/wip directory of eda.org to correct some editorial errors and also to deal with the [End Electrical Description] and [End Board Description] nomenclature inconsistency and other issues reported by Atul Agarwal. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross opened the discussion on BIRD44 which was submitted just prior to the June 1997 IBIS Summit meeting by Andy Ingraham. BIRD44 proposes changing the min and max column headings for certain keywords to slow/weak and fast/strong for IV tables and [Temperature Range], and also to slow and fast for [Ramp] and Waveform tables. This would apply only to the comment lines that are used for column headings and to any related discussion in the Specification. After a general discussion at the last teleconference meeting, Bob listed options for IBIS Version 3.1 implementation. These included (1) reject (do nothing), (2) add a note (which most did not favor), (3) adopt, (4) adopt with revision such as standardizing on just slow/weak and strong/fast for all of the revised headings to show correlation, and (5) adopt with a combined syntax such as min-slow/weak, max-fast/strong for maximum consistency. The group discussed and reviewed the options and favored pursuing (4). Bob also wanted BIRD44 to include the additional Version 3.0 keywords and sub- parameters that might be changed since BIRD44 was written before Version 3.0 ratification and discussed only Version 2.1 keywords and subparameters. The committee would need agreement on how the changes apply to all of the Version 3.0 keywords and subparameters before asking for a vote. Bob suggested that he ask the author, Andy Ingraham, to make the changes. AR - Bob Ross request Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes noted above. [Done] IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek reported that ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 which incorporated BUG20 and BUG21 fixes was completed and its executables were put on eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk2+. Matthew asked Bob Ross if the DOS32 executable was posted, and Bob confirmed that it was, but forgot to send out a notice. So the AR regarding posting ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 was completed. BUG22 - Empty [Rising Waveform] of [Falling Waveform] Causes Crash BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes BUG22 and BUG23 were discussed together. Atul Agarwal reported these crashes. Matthew Flora stated that BUG22 was similar to BUG10 and that the fix was easy. Similarly, Chris Rokusek knew how to fix BUG23. Bob Ross classified both these BUGs as Severe and Medium because they both relate to ibischk2+ crashes. Bob also noted that these BUGs have appeared in the ibischk2 Version 2.1.11 release, so they have been in the system for a long time. Such as set of fixes would go into ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16. Chris suggested that the executables for Version 2.1.16 be done in several months since the process of generating executable is time consuming. Also other new bugs may need to be corrected in this release. However, the solutions to the problems need to be communicated to Atul to be put into the ibischk3 code. So the action is for Matthew to communicate the solution to BUG22 to Atul, and Chris to communicate the solution to BUG23. Both will maintain an updated pending ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16, but will not issue executables at this time. AR - Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek communicate the fixes to Atul Agarwal for BUG22 and BUG23. [Done] VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross got commitments from Hewlett-Packard EEsof and VeriBest to join the ibischk3 funding activity. With 12 companies that makes the per company price $2084. The committee by unanimous vote approved issuing $2084 invoices against the purchase orders. Syed Huq suggested that the two companies which already issued checks at $2500 be handled on an individual basis - such as credit the excess against future expenses. Bob would also approve issuing a refund, if requested. Bob listed the twelve companies which are joining the funding effort: Applied Simulation Technology Cadence Digital Equipment Hewlett-Packard EEsof HyperLynx Incases Intel Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Mitsubishi Semiconductor National Semiconductor Viewlogic VeriBest Bob had no further status on the ibischk3 development and still expects the first release in early March. Bob still expects to incorporate the editorial corrections based on ibischk-bug@eda.org reflector activity concerning ambiguities. One fix is to change [End Board Description] to [End Electrical Description]. This correction would be put in the unofficial ver3_1b.ibs document. COOKBOOK No report, all the ARs are carried forward. AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model) Arpad Muranyi - Example 2 Stephen Peters - Example 3 AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement". IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION This discussion occurred after the BIRD42.3 discussion but is listed here as an Administrative topic. Bob Ross reviewed that the committee was formed at the January 9, 1998 meeting. Its function was to provide IBIS model developers feedback from EDA tool. The goal was to communicate to the IBIS developers how the model functioned and what are some of the critical practices and preferred options. One original option was for the IBIS committee to create a one day IBIS model development course. However, the committee members could not commit the time to do such a project. So the original committee with four members was formed at the meeting, and three more were added at the January 26, 1998 meeting. The complete committee along with their e-mail addresses are listed below: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics bob_ross@mentorg.com Olaf Rethmeier, Incases orethmeier@pad.incases.com Chris Rokusek, Viewlogic crokusek@qdt.com Paul Galloway, Cadence pgjr@cadence.com Ian Dodd, VeriBest idodd@veribest.com Jon Powell, Viewlogic jonp@qdt.com Bob asked how the committee should proceed. Chris Rokusek suggested some method of central distribution such as a Web site where an IBIS model developer could issue a model and it would automatically be distributed to the committee. Matthew Flora volunteered to be the focal point for such distribution. At this time he would distribute IBIS models to the other members. If the company required individual company agreements, such as NDA documents or Intel CITR documents, then this requirement would be distributed by Matthew. This mechanism complied with Chris' intent. So Matthew is the focal point for providing IBIS model review. The reviewers would provide feedback directly to the model provider. The model provider might then learn of important features needed by EDA tools which use IBIS models. Syed Huq questioned how long the feedback would take, and Bob stated that on a time available basis he expected the feedback to take several days or more. BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross indicated that BIRD42.3 will be discussed in presentations by C. Kumar and by Bob at the European IBIS Summit. Bob indicated that there are two fundamental reasons given for BIRD42.3: Data for another IBIS processing algorithm and data for correction currents. BIRD45 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Arpad Muranyi reported that he still needs to investigate incorporating the dynamic clamp tables into the [Driver Selection] mechanism. He still needs to work with Neven Orhanovic on this issue. BIRD46 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Matthew Flora continued the BIRD46 discussion that was started at the January 9, 1998 meeting. BIRD46 allows the total .ibs to be expanded to 64 characters. It is currently limited by the original DOS convention of 8.3. So the could contain 60 characters. A concern was raised that the DOS limitation might still exist in Windows NT Version 3.5.1 but subsequent e-mail argued that this limitation did not exist. Bob Ross had stated for consistency that a change made for the .ibs files should also apply to the .pkg and .ebd files in IBIS Version 3.0. Todd Andersen asked where .pkg and its limit was documented. Bob found some references in the IBIS Version 3.0 document. The other formats refer to complying to the .ibs or .pkg or .ebd file naming conventions. Rule 3 of the General Syntax Rules and Guidelines Section states that the filename must not exceed 8 characters in order to conform with DOS rules. Arpad Murany asked if the 64 character extension would cause the [Filename] keyword to exceed the 80 character line limit. Bob was concerned that the [Reference Designator Map] keyword has three columns consisting of the reference designator, the file name and component name. Since the component name can have 20 characters, Bob suggested that be limited to 20 characters. This would give naming flexibility without encouraging excessively long names. Greg Edlund asked if the underline character "_", character can be used in the name, and Matthew responded that it was already allowed. The general action item is for Matthew Flora to take this discussion into account and issue BIRD46.1. It is possible that BIRD46.1 will be up for a vote at the next meeting. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD44.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is the European EIA IBIS Summit in Paris, France on Monday, February 26, 1998. No teleconference connection is planned. The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, March 13, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1 may be scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================