DATE: 3/17/98 SUBJECT: 3/13/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis* Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern*, Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley* Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Nevin Orhanovic* Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen*, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions* Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Avanti Nik Bannov* CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Compaq Shariq Rahma EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fawn Engelmann ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell* Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode April 3, 1998 (916) 356-9200 5-28516 6935733 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Geoffrey Ellis from Cadence stated that he is involved with IBIS Version 2.1 and IBIS Version 3.0 utilities development Nik Bannov of Avanti is working on resurrecting the Meta I/O product and on Version 2.1 and Version 3.0 translations. D.C. Sessions invited and introduced Gil Russell of Siemens who is Chair of the JEDEC 16B committee. Gil's interest is in developing simulation models for the components and methods considered by the subcommittee. Patti Rusher affirmed that JEDEC now has full divisional status under EIA. Jean-Claude Perrin of Texas Instruments in France participated in the European IBIS Summit and is Chair of the IEC working group on IBIS Simulation and EMC Modeling. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher had issued invoices. She reports that North East Systems Associates (NESA) is a new member and has received payment from Mitsubishi. She has gotten other payments, but the accounting system is still not functioning properly for a detailed ledger report. Bob Ross and Patti will discuss off-line some invoice duplication issues. Patti also noted that the invoices for $2084 for ibischk3 parser source code have been generated and mailed. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The AR's will be discussed at the meeting. No corrections were noted on the previous two sets of meeting Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. Later, Bob stated that Syed Huq will ask on the IBIS reflector for Roster Updates for 1998. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that the March 2, 1998 issue of EDN, pp. 14-16, has the article "EDA Companies Tackle PCB-Board Design" which discusses several companies with IBIS capability. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob noted that Jon Powell had inadvertently deleted the IBIS models page that was linked from the EIA IBIS home page. Jon expects to restore it, and Syed Huq will ask Jon on how it is progressing. Matthew Flora reported that he found a new Motorola link for IBIS models. It has columns for several technologies, but currently IBIS models exist for the LCX technology. He submitted the link later as http://mot2.indirect.com/models/bin/logic_ic.html He cautioned that while the tables look good, there exists some binary data encoding or corruption in the uploaded files. Matthew has contacted Motorola regarding this. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on BUG24 - Errors not issued under first of several [Define Package Model] keywords. Bob Ross on s2ibis2 for Win95. INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the status. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob reported that the EIAJ subcommittee plans to have a web site in March 1998 with access to an English translation of the Version 1.0 document. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob reported on the meeting of national experts held in Paris on Friday, February 27, 1998. Bob is the US representative. Other national representatives from several countries participated along with the French committee within an official French standardization body: UTE. The purpose of the meeting was to review the committee activities and to provide input to the pending IEC 93/67/NP new work item proposal. This meeting was conducted as a working group meeting under IEC TC93/WG5 which was formed after IEC pushed back on the original IEC 93/60/NP proposal. The group's charter is to produce a new work item proposal with international concurrence for a project to standardize on models for simulating EMI emissions and also for simulating susceptibility to emissions. The presentation and draft document show some standardized measurement setups and some results. The proposal is for creating equivalent models of internal noise sources within components along with describing some coupling to pins and supplies. The proposal also provides for coupling from internal EMI noise sources to the device itself. The committee had chosen the IBIS format as the basis for doing these additions because of the usage of the IBIS format in the simulators of interest. The group intends to work on the proposal to consider submitting it to IEC consideration as a new work item. Bob suggested that EDA tool vendors would need to be involved with this activity for the committee to produce and acceptable simulation model. Note, this committee is chaired by Jean-Claude Perrin who called in after this report was given. IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES Greg Edlund reported on the IBIS User's Group meeting will hold a meeting on Thursday, March 19, 1998 at Digital Equipment. It will cover the pending BIRD on an Accuracy and Testing Document, some tools activities, and some reports on the European IBIS Summit. Greg also is holding a meeting of the Accuracy subgroup on Thursday, March 26, 1998 to work on the Accuracy document. Greg stated that some of the work by Greg and Bob Haller documented in the DesignCon98 paper will be applied. Bob Ross recommended that this document be generated separate to IBIS Version 3.0. It already is self-contained, comprehensive subject. There could be some controversial areas such as test loads and methodology, and Bob does not want the activity to bog down the progress toward IBIS Version 3.1. So, while a BIRD proposal would be in context of issuing an Appendix to IBIS Version 3.1, a BIRD would not be approved until the document is completed. The document itself must focus on the methodology and not make references to any commercial EDA product to remain within the scope of what is allowed within the EIA rules of operation. EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT REPORT Bob Ross asked if there was any feedback on the European IBIS Summit. Syed Huq felt it was a very successful meeting and thanked Mentor Graphics, Cadence, and High Design Technology for providing the support. The meeting was well attended and the 13 presentations filled the day. Syed appreciated that all the presentations had been uploaded. Bob also felt that the Summit was successful and stated that the people in Europe were critical for handling the local logistics. He stated that the next European IBIS Summit will probably be held with DATE99 in March in Munich, Germany. DATE98 AND PCB SYMPOSIUM FEEDBACK Bob Ross also asked if there was any feedback on the Design Automation and Test in Europe show. In general Bob and others felt that these were good conferences. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross reported that he will upload the unofficial IBIS ver3_1b.ibs update in the /pub/ibis/wip directory of eda.org. It corrects a few editorial errors including the [End Electrical Description] and [End Board Description] nomenclature inconsistency and other issues reported by Atul Agarwal. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross reported that he contacted Andy Ingraham regarding submitting BIRD44.1 to capture the agreements of the February 13, 1998 meeting. The extension will use only slow/weak and fast/strong nomenclature. Andy will also state the other keywords in Version 3.0 that might be affected by this change. Andy indicated that he expected to do this. AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted above. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS As previously reported, Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek worked together to produce a set of executables including a DOS32 executable for ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 which Bob Ross Uploaded on eda.org. Also Matthew reported that fixes to BUG22 and BUG23 were added to ibischk2+ and sent to Atul Agarwal for inclusion in the ibischk3 development. Bob asked that Matthew and Chris continue adding bug fixes to the ibischk2+ code, but that we will not release executables until we have a stable set of fixes. As more bugs are discovered and fixed as part of the ibischk3 project, Bob would like Matthew, Chris, and Atul to work together to get the information for ibischk2+ updates incorporated in the ibischk2+ code. As an example, BUG8 is fixed in ibischk3, but has not been moved to ibischk2+ because we did not have the resources to fix it when it was reported. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Around February 20, 1998, the first release of ibischk3 was distributed to the 12 companies that supported the development. Matthew Flora is doing the distribution from source code that Atul Agarwal delivers to him. Matthew has been adding a DOS32 ibischk3.exe executable so people can use the code. Atul reported that he has included the fixes to BUG22, BUG23, and also BUG8 in the first release. The first release included implementations of all of the IBIS Version 3.0 features except the package model and electrical board descriptions. Bob Ross reported that Atul has included eight comprehensive test files for testing and checking the ibischk3 functions that have been implemented so far. Bob reviewed these in detail - line by line, and provided some feedback to Atul. The ibischk-bug@eda.org reflector contains the officers and several people involved in the parser development projects, and questions regarding ibischk3 details raised by Atul are answered on this reflector. Atul is now working on the package model extensions and on the electrical board description. Atul has just reported that he has a correction release based on issues raised on the code so far. Bob asked Matthew to communicate with Atul and get a new copy for distribution. AR - Matthew Flora work with Atul Agarwal to distribute a new release of ibischk3. As previously reported, the invoices have been sent out to the companies funding the ibischk3 parser development. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters reports that Greg Edlund and Bob Haller from the IBIS East Users Group are now participating in the Cookbook update project. They will provide contributions to the Test and Validation chapter. Bob Ross suggested dropping all the ARs related to supplying examples to the Cookbook since no one has acted on these. Everyone agreed with this, so the example ARs are removed. BUG19 - WARNING FOR "typ" DATA OUTSIDE "min" AND "max" Bob Ross had been asked by Atul Agarwal whether he wanted Atul to add this enhancement in ibischk3. Atul has already implemented some value testing for the ibischk3 [Model Spec] subparameters. BUG19 also deals with checking to see if typical parameters fall between the min and max parameters. When originally issued by Paul Gregory, BUG19 was concerned with values in the I/V tables. However per the discussion at the December 17, 1998 meeting we felt that there were cases where such a test would issue warnings against correct data - particularly for BiCMOS devices. However, we felt the idea was still valid for subparameters such as C_comp, L_pkg, C_pkg and R_pkg. However, we did not authorize that this BUG be fixed at that time. Bob now suggested that we authorize its implementation for the above subparameters and also for all of the Voltage Rails. The committee agreed. AR - Bob Ross communicate to Atul Agarwal to implement the BUG19 enhancement for the keywords and subparameters above. BUG24 - ERRORS NOT ISSUED UNDER FIRST OF SEVERAL [Define Package Model] KEYWORDS Bob Ross added this new agenda item for discussion here because Atul Agarwal issued BUG24 and also provided the solution. BUG24 applies to ibischk2+, but this bug would get in the way of test case development for ibischk3. Since the provided solution was simple, Bob Ross suggested that we fix it and also add the fix to the ibischk2+ source code. Bob also suggested that BUG24 be classified as Severe, Medium since real errors can be missed. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported that one company is interested in getting some IBIS models reviewed. Bob had asked the request be forwarded to Matthew Flora. Matthew has not yet seen the request. D.C. Sessions indicated that the VLSI IBIS models are available for review. Bob has completed the permission request, and D.C. indicated that he is ready to upload the several Megabytes of IBIS models to Bob's site for the purpose of review. Others may also receive the models if the provide D.C. a letter at the VLSI address on the roster. Bob listed the complete Model Review Committee again and the e-mail addresses are given in the minutes. The contact point is Matthew Flora. Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics bob_ross@mentorg.com Olaf Rethmeier, Incases orethmeier@pad.incases.com Chris Rokusek, Viewlogic crokusek@qdt.com Paul Galloway, Cadence pgjr@cadence.com Ian Dodd, VeriBest idodd@veribest.com Jon Powell, Viewlogic jonp@qdt.com JC-16B Gil Russell is serving as Chair of a JEDEC subgroup of JC-16 designated as JC-16B. Gil describes JC-16 role as standardizing on interface modeling and testing of new I/O configurations such as Series Stub Terminated Logic (STTL). However what is missing are simulation models for the devices for validating the new methodologies. Gil revealed some resulting problems in the SSTL-3 specification extensions that might have been discovered by simulation. So SSTL-2 is still the practical level. This problem provided a motivation to form the JC-16B subgroup. Gil presented the Scope statement that the committee wants to generate models related to the new technologies considered by JC-16 and to be used for verification and design support. For background, D.C. Sessions is a member of JC-16B and suggested that IBIS format was an ideal candidate for fulfilling the modeling requirements. Furthermore, he suggested that EDA vendors need to participate in such model development activities. D.C. (was) volunteered to serve as a liaison between JC-16B and the IBIS committee, and he invited Gil to participate in the IBIS Open Forum meeting. Since the Scope statement was quite lengthy, Bob Ross asked Gil to provide a text copy to be distributed to the IBIS reflector. Furthermore, Bob invited Gil to continue to participate and monitor the IBIS activities since the Open Forum participation public and is open to all interested people. D.C., Gil and Patti Rusher discussed further a suggestion that the IBIS Open Forum meet at the December, 1998 meeting in San Diego, California. D.C. proposed the IBIS Summit meeting be held with the JEDEC group to foster interaction. He proposed that this replace the semi-annual IBIS Summit meeting associated with DesignCon in January in Santa Clara. Bob Ross indicated that this would have to be considered further since the IBIS community has had very successful history working with the DesignCon staff and holding meetings in January. Bob asked about other quarterly meeting locations to see if they happened to be at other potential IBIS Summit meeting sites, but the other JEDEC quarterly meetings tended to be at international locations. Bob would also consider an additional joint meeting in San Diego in December. The possibility of a joint meeting is open to further discussion. S2IBIS2 Bob Ross reported that he uploaded a copy of s2ibis2 for Windows95 that was contributed by Scott McMorrow of SiQual corporation. It works with HSPICE. Scott extended the columns to 5 decimal points for better accuracy and resolution and increased the length of the waveform table to 251 points. He also provides a utility to keep the first 75 points and sample the rest for a total of 100 points - the IBIS limit (if it is needed by the EDA tool). In this way he can get good resolution on the first part of the response where the data is changing and also converge accurately to the final DC value. Bob indicated that the .zip file which includes documentation is located on eda.org under /pub/ibis/s2ibis/s2ibis2_nt. (Late note, with a .dll file in the documentation, this executable also works with Windows NT). Scott's e-mail is provided for comments and questions. BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross reported that BIRD42.3 and related topics were discussed at the the European IBIS Summit. However, he was not ready to discuss this at this meeting. BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Arpad Muranyi reported that he met with Bob Ross and Chris Reid at Mentor Graphics on February 11, 1998 to agree upon a proposal. Initially the investigation was to see whether the [Driver Selection] mechanism could be used as originally suggested by Dave Moxley. After some discussion the group reached an agreement on a comprehensive extension that includes the BIRD45.1 dynamic clamp mechanism and also some active latching feature. Bob outlined the revised proposal. A new Model_type will be proposed to cover both the dynamic Clamp mechanism of BIRD45.1, but with fewer new keywords, and will also include the latching mechanism. Bob noted that the structure models is exactly the same as the Bus Hold structure that is currently being implemented in devices. Threshold subparameters for for voltage triggering would be added to the model for typ, min, and max in a four column format similar to those under [Model Spec]. Input and I/O models would call this new [Model] to be added to the existing responses. Bob agreed to issue the revision as BIRD45.2. AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD45.2 to add the dynamic clamp and latching details under a new Model_type for a model which can be called by other models. BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Matthew Flora still needs to issue BIRD46.1 per the AR of the last meeting to extend the filename from 8 characters to 20 characters. Bob Ross raised the issue that BIRD46 explicitly adds the period "." character as an allowed character in the file name for detail such as gtl.plus.ibs. Bob felt that while such generality was possible, it was still preferred to keep the existing restrictions for format uniformity among model providers. Stephen Peters and others on the committee agreed. So the AR is modified to just extend the filename size to 20 characters without adding the comment character. Bob also noted that a BIRD must be issued two weeks before we will vote on it so that interested parties have time to review it. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing the period "." character. BIRD47 - REMOVE PIN NAME AS A SUBPARAMETER OF THE [Pin List] KEYWORD. Stephen Peters issued BIRD47 to deal with an inconsistency under the Electrical Board Description section, [Pin List] keyword. As it is currently documented, two subparameters are documented on a separate line in a unique format. The typical pin subparameters such as those for [Pin], [Pin Mapping], etc., list subparameters on the same line as the keyword. BIRD47 eliminates the pin_name subparameter and moves the signal_name subparameter to the keyword line. Because this was a syntax change from IBIS Version 3.0, BIRD47 was necessary. The committee generally agreeded with BIRD47. BIRD47 will be formally voted upon at the next meeting to comply with the two week notification requirement. However, based on the sense of the Committee, Bob Ross will authorize Atul to use the syntax of BIRD47 in the ibischk3 code. KEYWORDS UNDER [NOTES] SECTION CAUSE PARSING ERRORS In the time remaining after all of the formal agenda items including new issues were discussed, Arpad Muranyi discussed a problem. If a keyword is used as part of the text under the [Notes] keyword, and it is the first entry of the line, then ibischk2+ and ibischk3 report an incorrect error. Matthew Flora stated that IBIS requires the keywords to start on the first column. If the [Notes] text was formated so that it was indented, but the line started with a bracketed keyword, then this would be a bug which could be detected and corrected. Arpad noted that there was no restriction that the [Notes] text has to be indented. Bob Ross noted that this would be a truly ambiguous case - you would not know if the notes text was intended to include the keyword name or whether it was intended to be terminated by a new keyword that was not positioned properly. Arpad stated that he would write up the problem so we could consider it further based on its specific description. AR - Arpad Muranyi document the concern and send it to ibischk-bug@eda.org [Done]. DISTINCT SIGNAL NAMES Matthew Flora asked whether it would be considered a specification violation or an error if the [Pin] signal_name entry was the same for different models. This was discussed briefly. Bob Ross felt that while IBIS documents what is intended for signal_name (the pin signal name from the component databook), the entry is for information only. EDA tools that use IBIS models do not rely on the entry, and there are cases where good IBIS models can be created by just stubbing in any entry to fill the column. In the electrical board description, the signal_name subparameter column does have some meaning for documenting the POWER, GND, and NC pins since [Path Description]s are not required for these pins. Matthew felt that this was still an error for the [Pin] keyword. Bob suggested that Matthew either issue a BIRD to suggest a clarification in the IBIS specification or a BUG to raise formally the issue that a Warning should be issued if different signal_names exist for the same model. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, April 3, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1 and BIRD47.1 are scheduled for votes. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ==============================================================================