DATE: 4/28/98 SUBJECT: 4/24/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis* Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Nevin Orhanovic Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen*, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Avanti Nik Bannov CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Compaq Shariq Rahma Crucial Technology Rathna Reddy* EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fawn Engelmann ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode May 15, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167409 2939394 June 5, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167410 9468535 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Rathna Reddy from Crucial Technology (a spinoff of Micron Technology) is involved in memory board design using memory ICs and needs to use IBIS models to support EDA tools. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher reported that she sent Bob Ross a report indicating that there were no new members. Bob reported that most of the members have paid and some special case situations will be handled off line. For example, one company was double billed. Also, some companies do not show having paid for the ibischk3 development project, and these issues will be traced offline. Bob indicated that in spite of some billing confusion and glitches, he is pleased with the payment progress to date. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The AR's will be discussed at the meeting. No corrections were noted on the previous set of meeting Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. Syed Huq reported that he continues to do roster updates and reports them to Bob as they occur to get the 1998 entries correctly reflected. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross noted that IBIS was mentioned briefly in "Printed-Circuit Board Changes Enable New Design Possibilities" by Cheryl Ajluni in the April 6, 1998 issue of Electronic Design, pp. 83-92. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora found that Aptos Semiconductor is supplying IBIS models at http://www.aptos.com/ibismain.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on meeting dates Bob Ross on ibischk3 and ebdchk3 distribution Bob Ross on 3-state ECL Bob Ross on Electrical Board Description issues. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the status. This may not be resolved until the next IEC meeting in September. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit (IMIC) - Bob Ross noted the revised notation and the fact the March 31, 1998 copy designated Version 1.1 is available and downloadable in a .pdf format from the site below: http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/tsc/SSC/IOPG.htm Comment deadline on this version closes on June 10, 1998. Bob noted that a few pages could not be printed because of some font problems. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean-Claude Perrin, Chair, reported that the New Work Item Proposal activity will be delayed by about four months due to workload conflicts and administrative delays. He may have a document to show at the IEC meeting, but it will not be the formal proposal. - JC-16B - Bob Ross wanted to clarify the dates of the IBIS Summit Meeting planned for December, 1998. Patti Rusher will check if it is planned for Wednesday, December 9, 1998. She also indicated that the JEDEC committee was very pleased to have a co-located meeting with people from JC-16B. The meeting will be mutually beneficial for the groups since they are interested in the same issues from different perspectives. MEETING DATES Bob Ross inserted this new discussion topic here. Bob indicated that the remaining meetings through the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation Conference and the other IBIS Summit meetings are listed below along with the suggested emphasis: Friday, May 15, 1998 - Teleconference Friday, June 5, 1998 - Teleconference Thursday, June 18, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (Design Automation Conference (DAC)) Election of EIA IBIS Open Forum Officers Possible Final Technical Discussions regarding Open BIRDs Possible Ratification of Version 3.1 Thursday, October 15, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (PCB Conference East and IBIS Users Group) Educational Issues Accuracy and Validation Issues Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (JEDEC JC-16B) JC-16B Design/EDA Tool Simulation/Modeling Issues for configurations of mutual interest such as Series Stub Terminated Logic (STTL), etc. Monday, February 1, 1999 - IBIS Summit Meeting (DesignCon) Regarding the DAC IBIS meeting, Stephen Peters indicated that he would like to have IBIS Version 3.1 finalized, if possible. Bob would also like this as a goal and will work hard to resolve and close out the open BIRDs. Patti Rusher has reserved the room from 9 AM to 5 PM. She needs to place the banquet order for food and plans just the morning refreshments and lunch. The meeting might not need to take all day. Greg Edlund indicated that having an IBIS Summit Meeting associated with the PCB Conference East had been discussed the previous day at the IBIS Users meeting on April 23, 1998. There was considerable interested along with the interest in the educational aspects. IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES Since scheduling and meetings was being discussed, Bob Ross moved this topic here to continue with Greg Edlunds' report on the April 23, 1998 meeting. Greg already reported that the interest was positive on having an IBIS Summit meeting at the time of the PCB Conference East. Greg summarized Paul Galloway's report and gave this report. Due to job responsibility changes, Paul will have to pull away from chairing the Sub- committee on Software and Usability. Paul reported that he and Ed Sayre are working on a possible two day IBIS training course. Patti Rusher indicated that if it is to be associated with the PCB Conference East, then the proposal needs to be submitted soon to the show sponsors - Miller Freeman. The PCB magazine and Miller Freeman co-own this conference. If the course were done through the conference, then the price would probably be set and the profits would go the the conference organizers. The deadline has already past for proposed seminars. Bob Ross indicated that the course could also be set up separately. Perhaps it could follow the IBIS Summit meeting as a dry run. It could be a one-half day session after the IBIS Summit Meeting (although the feeling was that this would conflict with other IBIS Summit business). It could also be done on a separate day. Greg also stated that Paul reported on other items - the Cadence s2ibis2 windows manager was released. The IBIS Users Group Web Page is being done by a group in Switzerland and is up, but information has not been put in it yet. Greg reported that he talked about the accuracy and validation activities. He has already sent minutes out to the ibis-user reflector. The meeting was held at Trilogic. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, May 21, 1998. IBIS LOGO CHANGE Bob Ross summarized the comments to date on the 5 logos that were presented. Most favored #3, and some favored or listed #1 and #5 as the second choice. No one favored #2 or #4. Based on this and the comments, the committee agreed to pursue using #3. The main comment is to try make the "IBIS" larger. Arpad Muranyi did not see the association of the logo to the of the committee. Bob commented that most logos contain only the company names. We could put "I/O Interface Specification underneath the logo in some instances to define "IBIS". The EIA logo has its name, Electronic Industries Alliance, under its logo on the Home page. Patti Rusher needs to know soon what the logo will be for preparation of the EIA booth at the Design Automation Conference. Bob suggested that we are close enough to using #3 on the EIA IBIS Home page. However, the suggested variations of the logo including a larger IBIS text could still be pursued on the tttp://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.html page. We will formally decide on the logo at the May 15, 1998 meeting, if not sooner. Bob raised the issue of who is authorized to use the logo in response to a question by Greg Edlund on whether the new logo is downloadable from a .gif file. Syed Huq felt that the EIA IBIS Open Forum should control the usage of the logo since it contains the EIA logo and we do not want the IBIS logo to imply that unvalidated IBIS models comply with the IBIS standard. Patti thought that EIA IBIS Open Forum Members can use the logo (as a benefit for membership) to indicate that they are members of the EIA IBIS Open Forum. Bob stated that the previous "logo" evolved from a placard that was intended to be used at trade shows to promote IBIS acceptance. This placard was given to anyone who might be supporting the IBIS effort. So Bob, while aware of some implications, never really tried to control its usage. Since this is going to be the official logo, it can only be used by EIA IBIS Open Forum Member Companies to indicate the they are members. It cannot be used to indicate IBIS model compliance. Any other usage such as by the IBIS East Users Group) must officially be approved by the IBIS Open Forum (which should not be a problem). EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross indicated that he plans to upload an UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1c.ibs document on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip. It will contain the resolved BIRD47 change. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross indicated no progress. AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.15) PROGRESS Bob Ross indicated that he will still act on compressing the existing executables per last meeting - .Z for unix applications, .zip for DOS Windows applications. Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek are still controlling the master of the Version 2.116 release BUG27 - Parser Crashes when Calling [Package Model] Matthew Flora found another bug which causes a crash. This occurs since some code checks for line lengths of 79 characters and other code checks for 80 characters. Matthew located the source of the problem. Bob classified this as Severe, High, Open, and intends that this fix be rolled into ibischk2.1.16. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross stated that he is checking in detail the Beta Version 3.0.1 of ibischk3 and ebdchk3. So far it appears very good. Some of the prior bugs have been fixed in this version, but Bob still needs to confirm that the BUGs have been fixed in the embedded ibischk2+ code. Bob noted that the .make files has a DEFINE -DIBIS_PRINT statement which causes all the variables to be dumped. The code can be compiled without this statement for a smaller listing of just the Errors and Warnings. Bob raised the issue that even though the project is funded by 12 companies, we could release the executables. Matthew Flora indicated that this was just preliminary code, so it is possible to have some undetected mistakes. Matthew also indicated that it would be valuable to have more people using to executables to help test it. Bob cited that historically the development versions of the ibis_chk and ibischk2 executables were made available to support testing and encourage IBIS model development. Stephen Peters and others generally agreed that we should release the executables. Bob stated that we could release just the executables that were convenient such as the DOS Windows versions and a few others. Chris Rokusek volunteered on a one- time basis before the Design Automation Conference meeting to generate the complete set of ibischk3/ebdchk3 executables. Bob volunteered to compress and post them. AR - Chris Rokusek generate the ibischk3 and ebdchk3 executables for Version 3.0.1 in a timely manner and sent to Bob Ross. Bob compress and put the preliminary executables on eda.org for general access. Chris Rokusek also stated that a company who paid for the source code wants to add additional sanity checking, and Chris wondered how this may be folded back into the official source. Bob stated that any changes of this nature have to be worked thru the full committee. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters reports that there no is progress on the Cookbook project. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora indicated no activity. However, Bob Ross knows of a possible future testing situation. For general information, the contact person is: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross indicated no activity, but BIRD42.3 will be discussed in the near future. Bob has some concern about specifying both the [Pullup Reference Current] and [Pulldown Reference Current] and some numerical interactions. Bob indicated that aspects of BIRD42.3 have been discussed at the last two IBIS Summit Meetings. Bob also indicated that the EMC and IBIS Modeling sub-committee wanted the functionality that BIRD42.3 provides. BIRD48 - ADD MODEL BIRD49 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS BIRD50 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD Bob Ross made several comments on these BIRDs related to some additional functionality that was known, but not included in the original proposals. First, there still needs to be a mechanism to bypass the edge-trigger method of activating the dynamic clamps since some implementations allow the clamps to be invoked from an external clock so that the clamp is preset in a shifted clamp state. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that it might be possible to use a negative time value in the [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] to indicate a preset state. This could relate to the operation to the control pulse used by EDA tools. Bob will look into possible methods. Bob also stated that some of the Add Model functionality is active only for certain states. Since the Model_type might be used for a particular state (such as Input, I/O or Output) another subparameter such as "State" might be needed. It would indicate usage during Input, Output, or I/O modes. Bob also noted that the embedded added models may be for an Open_sink or Open_source state. The [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] extensions could be used to explicitly give the internal loading conditions since the internal added model configuration was not given. BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD45.1 for the purpose of rejecting it since BIRD48 and BIRD49 were intended to replace BIRD45.1. After some discussion on historical details, a vote on BIRD45.1 was held. BIRD45.1 was reject unanimously with two abstentions from newer members based on not being familiar with the issues. BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Since BIRD46.1 has not been issued, Bob Ross deferred the discussion. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing the period "." character. 3-STATE ECL As a new item Bob Ross indicated that per the discussion at the last meeting, he may issue a BIRD on this for adding the Model_type 3-state_ECL. He knows of an ECL device or two which really has a high-Z mode. ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION DISCUSSION As a new item Bob Ross indicated that there were some Electrical Board Description clarification and technical questions. He might issue a BIRD for clarification. The items are: (1) We intended that circular references not be allowed, but Bob cannot find this being prohibited - e.g., EBD A references EBD B which references EBD A. Stephen Peters indicated that he assumed that this was not permitted. Bob thought ebdchk3 might actually test for this. (2) Bob questioned whether we want to keep the restriction of .ebd files not containing actual IBIS models. A single file for the .ebd and all related IBIS models (and even other Electrical Board Descriptions) would help assure that all of the related information of an Electrical Board Description are included in the same file. Bob indicated that we originally prohibited including IBIS data in .ebd files for some practical reasons. We did not want to make the ebdchk3 utility too complicated in order to make its development manageable. We also did not want to impose on the user a very large utility to do just IBIS model or EBD model checking. These assumptions may not be valid. At this time, a superset checker for both may be practical. We already permit a separate .pkg file and also the [Define Package Model] keyword to be defined within a .ibs file, so allowing an IBIS component in a .ebd file could work in a similar manner. The reference designator listing referencing the same file would needed for referenced IBIS models. Bob stated, however, that one issue could be conflicting [Define Electrical Description] names and [Component] names. (3) Regarding conflicting names for [Define Electrical Description] and [Component], Bob recommended that the names be different in practice to avoid confusion. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, May 15, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1, if issued, is scheduled for a vote. Final resolution of the IBIS logo is scheduled. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================