DATE: 9/1/98 SUBJECT: 8/28/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*, Todd Westerhoff Compaq Shariq Rahma, Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, (Digital Equipment Corp.) Bob Haller Cypress Bruce Wenniger Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, (& formerly NCR) Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan, Mohammed Hawana, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Neven Orhanovic, Mohamed Mahmoud Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor [Syed Huq], Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song, Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Symbios Logic Larry Barnes Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Atmel Ali Baktashian Avanti Nik Bannov CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Cisco Systems Syed Huq*, Sergio Camerlo*, Irfan Elahi* Crucial Technology Rathna Reddy EIA Patti Rusher EMC Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella* ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said IBM Richard Steinle, Kevin Jackson Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell Sun Microsystems Lam Dong, Kevin Ko Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode September 18, 1998 (916) 356-9200 1-249623 2581644 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Syed Huq (past Vice-Chair and formerly of National Semiconductor) called in from Cisco Systems. He is now a signal integrity engineer involved with ASIC design and working for Sergio Camerlo. Sergio Camerlo is manager of the Signal Integrity and Packaging Group at Cisco Systems. He had followed IBIS while at Olivetti. His group is now very interested in using IBIS for their signal integrity work. Irfan Elahi has been with Cisco Systems for nine months. Irfan has years of experience doing signal integrity analysis and getting and using IBIS models. He is particularly interested in how IBIS will support connectors in the future. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Patti Rusher states no membership or financial change. Syed Huq stated that Cisco Systems plans to become a full IBIS Open Forum member. Syed plans to contact Patti to get an invoice. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S No corrections were noted. The ARs will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reports that the Roster has been updated. He also solicited an update to the roster information for Motorola from an additional contact at Motorola. Bob Ross stated that the August 17, 1998 issue of EE Times had a series of articles on high-speed interconnects with an incidental mention of IBIS. Ed Sayre of the IBIS (East) Users Group was on the front page displaying his "fiendish delight at uncovering knotty engineering problems". NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that Jon Powell plans to clean up the models directory under eda.org/pub/ibis and remove old subdirectories. Some older Intel models may be retained unless they are publicly available elsewhere on the Intel site. Other models are obsolete or are superceded on company sites. Also, the models link on the official EIA IBIS Web site has been down for a while. Bob is working with Jon on a possible alternative. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher reported to Bob Ross that the document has been moved to the ADVC (Draft Approved for Committee Draft With Vote). This is another step leading to a ratification vote. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit (IMIC) - Bob Ross mentioned that he might meet again with the committee chairman Dr. Hideki Fukuda in September, 1998 to discuss plans. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross gave a brief report on a recent document he received titled "Electromagnetic Compatibility, Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Simulation". This document is to be circulated to the IEC National Committees as a new NWIP (new work item proposal) replacing the IEC 93/67/NP. Its scope is to propose a concept study and behavioral models for simulation of electromagnetic compatibility in emission and susceptibility. The objective is to account for the total electrical activity of an integrated circuit including internal core activity, input/output signal transitions, power supply dynamic currents, and package parasitic elements. Its philosophy is to produce a separate file compatible with IBIS, with the same syntax in an ASCII format. It must be open to evolution and have elements accessible through measurement. The document introduces some concepts and proposes some architectures for emission and susceptibility models. However, it needs to be verified and optimized. - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross stated that the joint meeting is still planned for Wednesday, December 9, 1998 in San Diego with the JEDEC JC-42 and JC-16 meetings. Bob expects the initial details will be sent out after the next IBIS telephone meeting. - IEEE Standard Component Data Sheet - No report. Matthew Flora reminded Bob Ross of this agenda item. Bob stated that he is keeping this as an agenda item since Stephen Peters may contact Bob Davis, Chair of the committee to call in to one of our meetings. IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS Greg Edlund reported on the Accuracy subcommittee meeting held on Thursday, August 27, 1998 at Stratus Computer. The first draft is about one-half complete. The test board is in the PC shop and is expected to be completed shortly. The plan is to prepare a DesignCon paper and also an IBIS Summit presentation in February, 1999. Fabrizio Zanella reported on the Connector group activities. The group has been meeting regularly with representation from connector companies AMP, Teradyne, Berg, and Molex. Also Ansoft and Hyperlynx are contributing. Kellee Chrisafulli is drafting a BIRD for both single and coupled lines. The intent is that connector models have a separate .con file. The BIRD may propose a self-contained document. The subgroup hopes to complete the activity by the end of the year. They are concerned about funding for parser extensions. Fabrizio gave a few details of the thinking for the BIRD. It would cover three-dimensional extensions and handle 1000 pins. However, it is based on using smaller sections and only the significant next pin coupling. Bob Ross mentioned that if the subgroup wishes, they could send out minutes on the IBIS reflectors. Arpad Muranyi asked if coupled matrices were already supported and Bob responded that a single stage of coupled LCR is supported for package models in IBIS Version 2.1 Bob Ross stated that the next IBIS Users group meeting has been rescheduled from Thursday, August 20, 1998 to Thursday, September 3, 1998 at Stratus Computer. OCTOBER 15, 1998 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS Bob Ross reported that Kathy Breda is coordinating the arrangements. The first meeting notice has been sent out calling for presentations, signups, sponsors, and providing meeting details. The meeting will be held at the Boxboro Holiday Inn (where the first IBIS Users Group meeting was held). It is scheduled all day, and lunch and refreshments will be provided. A two hour IBIS tutorial developed by NESA and TriLogic will be given for review and feedback. Greg Edlund will give a report on the IBIS Accuracy progress for discussion. Fabrizio Zanella will report on the Connector specification status. Bob Ross mentioned that he might give a presentation on using Spice to validate IBIS extensions. Arpad Muranyi expressed interest in the Accuracy issue. Bob noted that this meeting will be held at the same time as the PCB Conference East nearby in Marborough, Massachusetts. All of the face-to-face meetings are held with other meetings of interest to IBIS members since many IBIS participants will be in attendance anyway. Syed Huq asked about an IBIS tutorial at the PCB Conference. Bob noted that it will be conducted the same day as the IBIS meeting. Bob mentioned that Kathy may have a magazine to co-sponsor the meeting. She sent out letters to three other companies to co-sponsor (share the expenses for meeting rental, lunch and refreshments, etc.). Another notice will go out to get participation commitments. EDITING COMMITTEE No Report. The editing committee BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.17) PROGRESS Bob Ross reported that the source code was delivered. Chris Rokusek compiled (during the meeting) the executables. All bugs except BUG25 and new BUGS29-31 are included in this version. This release supports the official ANSI/EIA-656 standard or IBIS Version 2.1. [Bob uploaded the executables after the meeting, per AR, on eda.org under /pub/ibis/ibschk2+.] Since Syed is now with a company that has not purchased the parser, Bob mentioned that he might consider loaning him the source code to get Linux executables. VERSION 3.1/3.2 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross reported that Version 3.1 source code was distributed to those who funded the parser. Chris Rokusek compiled the executables during the meeting. Similar to the ibischk2+ version, BUG25 and new BUGS29-31 were not included. Bob explained that he did not want to hold up the release of executables for BUG25, but that it would be worked on for the ibischk3, Version 3.2 Bob reported that Atul Agarwal plans to deliver the parser during the third or fourth week of September, 1998. He listed several minor errors to the BIRDS being incorporated. Bob corrected the errors in a work in progress ver3_2b.ibs specification which will be uploaded later. [The new ibischk3 executables have been uploaded to eda.org under /pub/ibis/ ibischk3. COOKBOOK No report. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that he thinks Motorola will submit a model for review. The list of companies still includes Cadence, HyperLynx, Incases, Mentor Graphics, Viewlogic, and Veribest. Matthew said that he needs to send a note to the reflector. His contact address is repeated below: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS IBIS Model Review committee. BIRD53 - Geoffrey Ellis summarized BIRD53 by stating that it basically limited the line terminators to those supported by UNIX (linefeed) and DOS (carriage return, line feed). Geoffrey noted that the 8-bit international character sets supported other terminators. Geoffrey listed a number of problems that could occur if the terminator set were extended. These included inability to print the file, and the inability in some systems to recognize certain terminators. Sun Unix systems can process the international character sets, but the involves setting a new environment variable. Geoffrey supported the limitation as a practical restriction for EDA vendors. Bob Ross asked for the opinions of other EDA vendor participants. Chris Rokusek agreed with the limitation. Bob also supported this limitation because a subset of capability provides a file that is most easily used by everyone. Matthew Flora also supported this position. Olaf Rethmeier presented a European perspective that EDA vendors must consider the US market. So he also supported BIRD53. Matthew raised some concerns on the wording of the BIRD53 changes. The reference to C language \n and \n\r characters was unnecessary. Also, it was not clear whether the character set limitation applied to just terminators or to all characters. Arpad Muranyi noted that other developers might want to include comments in their native languages. However, the information might be garbled when processed using another character set. Bob noted that he wanted BIRD53 to focus only on the termination issue. In practice the comment and text characters are not a real issue. Matthew noted that the text of BIRD53 could be interpreted narrowly to include limiting comments in native languages. Bob indicated that the general consensus was to approve BIRD53. However, the wording details needed to be resolved. Matthew and Geoffry should work out the acceptable language and issue BIRD53.1 for a vote at the next meeting. AR - Geoffrey Ellis and Matthew Flora to work out the technical wording changes for accuracy and clarity and submit BIRD 53.1 by Friday, September 4, 1998 so that it can be voted on at the next meeting. BUG29 - \n, \r. \r\n Line Terminators Need to be Handled Bob Ross indicated that based on the sense of the committee, BUG29 will be closed with Will Not Fix. (This will be finalized if BIRD53.1 is approved.) BUG30 - [Pin Mapping] Checks are too Simplistic Bob Ross noted that Atul Agarwal plans to include a fix to BUG30 in the next ibischk3 parser release. The current set of tests do not look at the bus connection restrictions that are documented in the specification. BUG31 - Error for [Pulldown] Decreasing Current Should be Warning Bob Ross had some concerns about some of the data in BUG31. However, he deferred discussion since he had not looked at the details. So the action remains to research BUG31 further before proposing any change to the ibischk3 parser. INPUT ENHANCEMENTS Bob Ross briefly noted that input specification enhancements are possible by adding subparameters to the [Model Spec] keyword. He noted that comments have appeared occasionally over the past year on subparameters. Also some new Input parameters for duration during input transition are needed. There have been several reflector comments on the need for more additional specification parameters in the last year. Bob noted that all [Model] subparameters could be expressed in a typ-min-max format under [Model Spec], similar to Vinh and Vinl. Bob also noted that some more advanced input considerations relate to SSO (as suggested by D.C. Sessions) might be included later as a Version 4.X enhancement. Bob noted that he might propose a BIRD on this. However, such a BIRD could be disruptive for those vendors implementing IBIS Version 3.1 functionality. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be on Friday, September 18, 1998 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD53.1 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 17641 NE 67th Court Redmond, WA 98052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================