DATE: 9/24/98 SUBJECT: 9/18/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram* Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*, Todd Westerhoff Compaq Shariq Rahma, Jeff Chu, [Greg Edlund], (Digital Equipment Corp.) Bob Haller* Cypress Bruce Wenniger Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern*, (& formerly NCR) Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan, Mohammed Hawana, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Neven Orhanovic, Mohamed Mahmoud Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song, Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions* Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Atmel Ali Baktashian Avanti Nik Bannov CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Cisco Systems Syed Huq*, Sergio Camerlo, Irfan Elahi Crucial Technology Rathna Reddy EIA Patti Rusher EMC Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said IBM Richard Steinle, Kevin Jackson Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell Summit Computer Systems Bob Davis* Sun Microsystems Lam Dong, Kevin Ko Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 15, 1998 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone November 6, 1998 TBD TBD TBD All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Haller confirms that Digital Equipment is officially Compaq. Also, Larry Barnes stated that Symbios Logic is now part of LSI Logic. Bob Ross mentioned that the attendees list has been changed and that the EIA IBIS Open Forum membership now is transferred to these new companies and all their divisions world-wide. Bob Davis of Summit Computer Systems joined the meeting to discuss the IEEE Standard Component Data Sheet activity. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported no membership or financial change. Syed Huq stated that Cisco Systems plans to become a full IBIS Open Forum member and is still working to get the paperwork from Patti Rusher. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S No corrections were noted. The ARs will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq stated that there is a Mitsubishi Roster update. Bob Haller and Larry Barnes will work with Syed to update their sites. Syed reports that the Models link has been restored, and a new Tools link was created to the ibischk3 executables. Syed uploaded linux ibischk2+ and ibischk3 executables. Syed also reports the turn around time for web updates should be 24 hours. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported some new links: Altera buffers: http://www.altera.com/html/atlas/ibis.html Pericom Semiconductor models: http://www.pericom.com/ibis Bob Ross mentioned that we still need to clean up the models directory under eda.org/pub/ibis and remove old subdirectories such as the National subdirectory. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross stated that the IEC plenary session is scheduled in London on September 23-25, 1998. There might be some progress on moving IBIS Version 2.1 through some more steps. Bob does not think IBIS will be ratified at that meeting. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross mentioned that he might meet again with the committee chairman Dr. Hideki Fukuda in Monday, October 5, 1998 to discuss I/O model plans. Although this was set up as a private meeting, Bob Ross said others would be allowed to attend. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross reported that a Task Group meeting is planned on September 22, 1998 in Paris, prior to the IEC plenary meeting in London to prepare a New Work Item to be distributed at the IEC meeting in London. - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross initially reported that the joint IBIS and JEDEC meeting is planned for Wednesday, December 9, 1998 in San Diego. Bob noted that D.C. Sessions sent a note to the IBIS reflector on some recent JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 activities. He indicates that the IBIS format is being considered for Specifying memory products. There is growing interested in the IBIS format, but may participants are not familiar with its details or how well it works with simulators. This is an opportunity for education. The note also stated that there is interest in the IBIS format for FET switches since they are now being used in DDR SDRAM models. D.C. gave further details. The memory manufacturers are not fully aware of what IBIS is or does. D.C. is helping to educate them that it is a format for a specification. If one manufacturer's IBIS specification is used as a basis for a memory specification, other manufacturers feel that their products may be cut out. D.C. also provided the JEDEC group information about VT and [Ramp] data. He also has recommended that they join the ibis-users reflector to become more familiar with IBIS. D.C. also stated that the memory manufacturers need to become familiar with IBIS related EDA tools. He referred to an offer by HyperLynx to provide a free tool to semiconductor vendors to assist in doing IBIS model development. Bob Haller stated that in response to a questionnaire sent out by Bruce Heilbrunn, several other EDA vendors indicated that they are offering free or low cost tools for IBIS model development. D.C. proposed that such tools and offers be put on the EIA IBIS Web Page. Then semiconductor vendors could use this for contact information. Bob Ross was concerned that this was not an appropriate use of the EIA IBIS Web page. It deals with vendor-specific relationships, and Bob suspects that in most cases such arrangements are not open-ended - the details and who gets the tools need to be worked out on a case-by-case basis directly. Arpad Muranyi supported making the information available. One possibility might be for EDA vendors to use the Roster page itself. Here the EDA vendors can provide information as part of their IBIS Support statement. Bob Ross noted that EDA vendors can notify D.C. directly (602-752-6545) and he can relay the information. The DDR SDRAM data sheet proposal was discussed. This is a double data rate SDRAM with data transfers rates up to 2 million transfers per second. Thus signal integrity concerns are an issue. The SSTL2 specification is designed for this. The data sheet proposal is to consider IBIS formatted envelop tables and data for the I/O characteristics and pin capacitance. The IBIS format provides the template for the specification. This will be voted on at the December JEDEC meeting - co-located with the IBIS Summit meeting. D.C. further elaborated that a compelling reason for the IBIS Version 3.1 extensions was to support FET switches in memories that are used for memory isolation. Bob Ross mentioned that he and D.C. need to work together on the logistics of the IBIS Summit meeting. D.C. strongly urges the IBIS participants to also participate in the JEDEC meetings as invited guests. So Bob and D.C. need to provide information on such meetings and how to become an "invited guest". Bob plans for such details to be sent out in the next few weeks for early planning. AR - Bob Ross and D.C. Sessions work on the logistics of the IBIS Summit Meeting / JEDEC JC-42 and JC-16.2 meetings and communicate the information using the IBIS reflectors. - IEEE Standard Component Data Sheet - Stephen Peters met on September 17, 1998 in San Jose with a small group of people concerning initial discussions to prepare a Project Authorization Request (PAR). Stephen summarized the Data Sheet contents. It is intended to be an electronic data sheet covering mechanical, thermal, electrical, timing, topological, VHDL descriptions, and architectural specification aspects. The Pinacles document is very large and is not the basis for this activity. The IBIS format could be expanded to include power consumption, EMI susceptibility, pin definition, short circuit currents, etc. Arpad Muranyi stated that the short circuit current information is already in the I/V tables. Stephen noted to the group that the BIRD (Buffer Issue Resolution Document) process is available to make IBIS changes. Stephen provided the email address for Bob Davis, Chair. of the committee as bob@scsi.com if people want more information directly. Bob Davis called in later and emphasized that the committee intends to look at and rely on existing standards where possible. It does not intent to invent new formats. A goal is transferrable information from an identifiable source. He wants a succinct and tight format. Bob provided his website at www.scsi.com under projects where more information and documents will be stored. IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS Bob Haller reported on the September 3, 1998 meeting. It had good attendance with about 20 participants. IBIS Summit details were discussed. The Accuracy Specification is about one-half done as a rough draft. The test board is being built at Fairchild Semiconductor and should be available for display at the October IBIS Summit. The connector model BIRD is shaping up. Ed Sayre (NESA) and Joe Socha (Trilogic) are developing the IBIS training class and intend to present the outline and highlights at the IBIS Summit Meeting. Work is continuing on a DesignCon paper. OCTOBER 15, 1998 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS Bob Ross noted that a tentative schedule and further details were sent to the IBIS reflectors by Kathy Breda (NESA) who is coordinating the meeting. Bob Ross asked Bob Haller to report on the details. Bob Haller noted that there is interest in actual case studies. An opportunity exists for demonstrations in the back (including the test board demonstration). Bob Ross stated that he will include the tentative schedule in the minutes and reviewed it. He noted that it will probably change as more presentations are received and perhaps some time. Bob summarized the schedule so far as containing the following: A free two hour tutorial About six presentations A case study panel An optional Golf party from 4-6 PM for casual interaction (extra cost) Arpad Muranyi indicated interest in comparing a computer simulation model with silicon. The tentative schedule is below (adapted from the mailing): 8:30 A.M. Refreshments and informal gathering 9:00 Welcome, Introductions of participants - Ed Sayre (NESA) 9:15 General IBIS business - Bob Ross (Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics) 9:30 IBIS tutorial - Ed Sayre (NESA) /Joe Socha (Trilogic)/TBD 10:30 15 minute break 10:45 Continue with IBIS tutorial 11:30 IBIS Connector Model Definition BIRD - Fabrizio Zanella (EMC) 12:00 P.M. Lunch 1:00 Case Study Panel - Using IBIS Models Behavioral/IBIS modeling of a FET - Tay Ansari (Sun Microsystems) Bus using Cadence tools Measurement and simulations using various - Fabrizio Zanella Tools demonstrating and comparing 1) Measurements 2) Spice using spice model 2) vendors "A" and "B" using IBIS models IBIS Accuracy Specification - Robert Haller (Compaq Computer) IBIS Accuracy Test Board - Peter Laflamme (Fairchild Semi.) Comparison between SPICE and IBIS - Jinhua Chen (NESA) I/O device simulations MORE CASE STUDIES APPRECIATED! 2:00 Break 2:15 Using SPICE to Validate IBIS keywords - Bob Ross (Mentor Graphics) 3:15 PRESENTATION NEEDED! 3:45 Business Wrap-up 4:00 IBIS Summit Golf Outing - Cyprian Keys Golf Club (20 minutes from meeting location) Greens Fee ($12) to be paid by golfer. This is a Par 3, nine hole course, located twenty minutes from the meeting location. 284 East Temple St Bolyston MA 01505 508-869-9900 Bob Ross noted that the PCB Conference East is being held nearby Monday through Friday, October 12-16, 1998 in Marlborough, MA. So several PCB Conference attendees can also attend the IBIS Summit. Bob also noted that this was an excellent opportunity for some free IBIS training for local people and conference attendees. Kathy is still seeking closure on joint sponsorship issues. People should contact Kathy for documentation. As the emailing indicates, presenters and participants need to notify Kathy at breda@nesa.com EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross may upload a data model. The editing committee BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). IBISCHK EXECUTABLES Bob Ross reported that the ibischk2+, Version 2.1.17 executables and the ibischk3 Version 3.1 executables have been uploaded on eda.org. Thanks to Chris Rokusek for creating these during the last meeting. Also, Linux executables created by Syed Huq have been uploaded as previously reported. So the AR is completed. VERSION 3.1/3.2 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross plans to upload ver3_2b.ibs document in the work in progress directory with the resolution of BIRD53.1 below and some minor editorial corrections. As previously reported, Bob is still expecting the first version of ibischk3 for IBIS Version 3.2 by the end of September, 1998. Atul asked some questions about data value tests under the new [Submodel keyword. Bob responded with a set of tests that are similar to those of existing keywords. COOKBOOK No report from Stephen Peters. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora stated that Motorola has submitted several PECL Models for review by the Model Review Committee. Bob Ross believes several people have already responded. The committee is composed of EDA tool representatives, and each should respond privately to the model provider. The model provider is expected to consider the comments and make changes, if necessary. D.C. Sessions reported that VLSI Logic has revised its IBIS models. Potential reviewers need to notify D.C. directly by letter to get a copy of the new library for review. The letter should state that the reason is for review. Reviewed models are not to be given to anyone else. Matthew listed the companies doing the review: HyperLynx, Incases, Mentor Graphics, Viewlogic, and Veribest. He expects a new Cadence representative soon. Matthew still plans to send a note to the reflector. His contact address is listed at the end of these minutes. AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS Model Review Committee. BIRD53.1 - IBIS File Character Set Geoffrey Ellis briefly summarized BIRD53.1 by stating that it limited the line terminators to those supported by UNIX (linefeed) and DOS (carriage return, line feed). Geoffrey and Matthew Flora worked together to produce BIRD53.1 in response to the editorial comments at the August 28, 1998 IBIS meeting. At that time we achieve a general consensus regarding approving BIRD53. Raj Raghuram requested that BIRD53.1 new text be read. Bob Ross read the text and called for a vote. BIRD53.1 was approved by unanimous vote. BUG29 - \n, \r. \r\n Line Terminators Need to be Handled As a result of the BIRD53.1 approval, BUG29 then is closed with the status "Will Not Fix". BUG29 had requested additional terminators besides the UNIX and DOS terminators above. BUG31 - Error for [Pulldown] Decreasing Current Should be Warning Bob Ross continued the discussion on BUG31 by stating that it remained open, but we did not decide what action to take. BUG31 requests that the [Pullup], [Pulldown], [GND Clamp], and [POWER Clamp] table endpoint test be changed so that it reports a Warning rather than an Error. The example in BUG29 is confusing and does not appear to have realistic data. Bob illustrated the intent with the case that a ground clamp might exist only in the receiver mode of an I/O buffer, but not appear in the driver mode. The only way to model this using IBIS Version 2.1 is to put a compensating current in the [Pulldown] table (and technically the [Pullup] table). Because of the dominance of the clamp currents, this work-around can create in an ibischk3 Error violation. Arpad Muranyi and others pointed out that maybe ibischk3 should test the summated tables. Then the endpoint violation would not be reported. Bob felt there was danger in approving this because the model would be deemed acceptable, but some simulators might still have problems dealing with this extreme case. So the model would have limited transportability. Matthew Flora wanted to look at the IBIS Specification further to understand better the problem. We did not achieve a resolution and will continue the discussion at a later meeting. IBIS REFLECTOR ISSUES No time remained for this discussion. NEXT MEETING: The meeting is the IBIS Summit Meeting on Thursday, October 15, 1998 at Boxboro, Massachusetts. No teleconference will be available. The following meeting will be on Friday, November 6, 1998 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 17641 NE 67th Court Redmond, WA 98052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================