DATE: 5/11/99 SUBJECT: 5/07/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte* Cisco Systems Syed Huq Compaq Bob Haller*, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman, Maher Elasad Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli IBM Greg Edlund*, Michael Cohen, Praven Patel Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles, Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson*, Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad, Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber, Karine Loudet Mitsubishi (Tam Cao) Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer, Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg, Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo, Christian Sporrer SiQual Scott McMorrow Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah, Ramzi Ammar Thomson-CSF (Jean Lebrun) Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky Viewlogic Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Cary Mandel, (Jon Powell) VeriBest Ian Dodd* VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999: 3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Alcatel Steven Criel Analytical Edge Robert Easson Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson BMW Friedrich Haslinger Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming*, Dan Heinemeier Electronique Catherine Gross EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch Intracon Design Mike Osmond FCI John Ellis Litton Systems Robert Bremer Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Nortel Networks (& Viewlogic) Martin Hall Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer Praegitzer Design Rick Newell* Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre StorageTek Nick Krull Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter Teradyne Mikhail Khusid VDOL Robert Novosel Xilinx Susan Wu (Unaffiliatied, Retired) Bruce Wenniger In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode May 28, 1999 (916) 356-9200 8-12114 2274622 Monday, June 21, 1999 DAC99 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Rick Newell of Praegitzer Design indicated that Praegitzer Design has started up a small signal integrity group which uses many EDA tools. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Siemens is now an official member. Cecilia Fleming is still working on checking payments. Bob now estimates about 24 or 25 members including some where payments still need to be verified. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S No corrections were made to the minutes. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob noted that one reflector e-mail had the Happy99.exe virus as an attachment that should not be opened. A filter was set up on the author's e-mail address, but Matthew Flora will check if the person has "disinfected" himself. AR - Matthew to contact the "infected" subscriber to determine if the block on their address can be removed Matthew Flora mentioned that the new member information currently being sent out needs to be updated to give Cecilia Fleming as the EIA contact person. AR - Matthew will work with Bob on updating the new member information writeup. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Jim Lipman has written the article "Models Make the Difference in High-speed PC-board Design" in the April 15, 1999 issue of EDN. The article covers IBIS models and references simulator manufacturers. It is on pages 116-126 and also available from the following link. http://www.ednmag.com/ednmag/reg/1999/041599/df1.htm Also, the May 1999 issue of Printed Circuit Design Magazine contained articles with two references to IBIS. Jon Powell authored "SPICE or IBIS" on pages 12-17, and mention of IBIS was made in "Multi-board System-level Analysis" by Doug Kraemer on pages 32-34. Cecilia Fleming reported that Syed Huq can now do EIA IBIS Home page updates directly. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported a new SRAM IBIS model link from Galvantech: http://www.galvantech.com/ibis/ Also, 4 new technologies are added to the Philips link: http://www.philipslogic.com/support/ibis/ OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on s2ibis2 maintenance and s2ibis3. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reported that the Committee Draft for Vote (CDV) phase was completed. The official vote was 8 to 1 with 5 abstentions. This information was reported on the IBIS reflector. Greg Ledenbach, Secretary of IEC TC93 and member of the US Technical Advisory Group (TAG) forwarded the letter ballot comments. Bob drafted and circulated the comments and some proposed responses for review. Cecilia stated that the draft comments sent to her have already been forwarded to Greg. After these are processed, the IEC 62014-1 document should be moved to the next phase (FDIS) leading to formal ratification of a Draft International Standard. The voting report link (split into two lines to avoid e-mail truncation) is: http://www.iec.ch/cgi-bin/procgi.pl/www/ iecwww.p?wwwlang=E&wwwprog=vote2.p&wcom=93&wclass=&wdoc=91&wsup= Bob also discussed the comments and draft responses and is including the text in these Minutes: NO VOTE COMMENTS: GERMANY: Comment 1: The document for commenting concerns version 2.1 of IBIS . The industry is already working with the EIA document IBIS Version 3.0 and is looking forward to version 3.1 which is already in progress as they are most interested in ongoing extensions and improvements. Industry confirmed that their needs are sufficiently served by the latest EIA standard and that they do not plan to use the older versions of IBIS published by IEC. We think that therefore the effort in this IEC project has no added value for the users. The project, if proceeded, should be based on the latest IBIS Version. EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 1: We thank you for your early support of our current IBIS Version 3.2 extensions. A national letter ballot for IBIS Version 3.2 is currently being conducted for EIA and ANSI approval. Upon completion of this vote, scheduled on June 23, 1999, and after the comments have been resolved, and after this document has been ratified as an official ANSI and EIA standard, we plan to forward this document as a proposed revision to IEC 62014-1. Downward compatibility with IBIS Version 2.1 will be maintained. IBIS Version 2.1 still remains sufficient for many components and will remain relevant by Version 3.2. We hope to forward IBIS Version 3.2 in 1999. Therefore, we feel that we agree with this comment and are using the "proposed revision" method to achieve the same objective. YES VOTE COMMENTS: FINLAND: Comment 1: We regard it very important that the structure of all IEC-standards produced by TC 93 are in accordance of ISO/IEC Directives Part 3. Proposed Change Regarding Comment 1: Move cl. 2 Introduction and cl 2.1 Future direction of IBIS away from the normative part before cl 1 Scope without clause numbering. The present Preface could be presented in the Annex (informative). EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 1: We assume that the document that was circulated was the official ANSI/EIA-656 document with sections consisted with EIA guidelines at the time of the adoption. We will make any necessary format change to be consistent with ISO/IEC Directives. Comment 2: EDA Home page has following information: While IBIS Version 2.1 remains the official ANSI/EIA and pending IEC standard, IBIS Version 3.2, containing some technical extensions, has been ratified on January 15, 1999 by the EIA/IBIS Open Forum. This document should be submitted for national and international standardization consideration. Proposed Change Regarding Comment 2: If this will happen we propose to discuss if Version 2.1 can already now be replaced with Version 3.2 EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 2: We agree with this comment. Upon completion of a letter ballot that will end on June 23, 1999, we plan to resolve the comments leading to the ratification of IBIS Version 3.2 as a national ANSI and EIA standard. Then we plan to forward this official document as an upgrade to IEC 62014-1. Comment 3: Definition BIRD is not then used in Normative part. Proposed Change Regarding Comment 3: Explain BIRD in the Introduction. EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 3: We agree with your comment. BIRD should be defined in the Introduction as Buffer Issue Resolution Document - a document used by the EIA IBIS Open Forum to implement changes to the Specification. Comment 4: According to ISO/IEC Directives Part 3 the numbering of the content shall be used for the reference purposes Proposed Change Regarding Comment 4: Clause: I/O Buffer Information Specification (IBIS) Version 2.1 should be numbered with number 6. Present Numbering also for the headings of sub-clauses e.g.: 6.1 Statement of Intent 6.2 General syntax rules and guidelines for ASCII Files, 6.3 Keywords 6.4 Notes on Data derivation method EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 4: We agree with your comment concerning Section 6. However, we do not intend to revise this document with sub-clauses because we would need to introduce more sub-clauses. We will consider this comment as a review comment on IBIS Version 3.2 which has "sub-clauses" (called Sections) for clarity and will resolve it in this document. SPAIN: Comment 1: We agree to the circulation of the draft as an FDIS in accordance with 2.7.1 of part 1 of the ISO/IEC Directives (or publication in the case of a draft Technical Report). EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 1: We agree with your comment. Thank you for your support. UNITED STATES: Comment 1: The table and figures of the document that was circulated as 93/91/CDV have been apparently generated with a variable width font, and they do not appear to be well-aligned. The USNC assumes that the final document will be printed using a uniform width font, and that the alignment of tables and figures will be checked again. EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 1: We agree with this comment. We believe that the official ANSI/EIA-656 needs to be checked and reformatted. UNITED KINGDOM Comment 1: The formatting of the document is inconsistent. Proposed Change Regarding Comment 1: Courier font throughout the document is suggested. EIA IBIS Open Forum Response to Comment 1: We agree with this comment. We will provide a consistently formatted .txt document. Bob noted that the negative vote and the comment from Finland regarding IBIS Version 3.X was really an endorsement of the IBIS activity and related to the ratification process. He believed the other comments on content and format probably concerned the surrounding "boiler-plate" material that exists in the official ANSI/EIA-656 document available from Global Engineering. There are some real formatting issues since it is a Word document with the IBIS text included in one section. Some line wrap-around text exists. Bob and Cecilia will deal with these formatting issues off-line to clean up the document as needed to be in compliance with the IEC requirements. Bob called for an endorsement vote that these comments be the official comments of the EIA IBIS Open Forum. This was approved by unanimous vote. Cecilia expressed concern that the IBIS Committee should have direct TAG representation to deal with any technical issues and to argue the IBIS Committee positions. Bob noted that there were no technical comments. All of the comments dealt with process and format issues and indicated support of IBIS. While he supports having TAG representation, Bob does not expect any problems at the TAG level. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross reported that he and Stephen Peters are planning to meet with Dr. Norio Matsui and Raj Raghuram next week on Wednesday, May 12, 1999 to explore further some IBIS and IMIC merger and linkage ideas and issues. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross had no further report - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross had no further report. IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS Greg Edlund reported that a teleconference meeting was held on April 30, 1999. A number of issues were resolved on Version 1.2 of the IBIS Accuracy Specification. Greg has made the changes and is exploring uploading both a Word and Adobe Acrobat document so that comments can be made available for the next face-to-face Users group Meeting Bob Haller reported that a Users group Meeting is being planned at North East Systems Associates (NESA) on Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 3:00 P.M. to chart the course of the Users Group. They may consider having a phone in line. IBIS SUMMIT AT DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE Bob Ross noted that Cecilia Fleming has made arrangements for the IBIS Summit meeting at the Hilton Hotel in New Orleans, LA on Monday, June 21, 1999. This is adjacent to the Ernst M. Morial Convention Center where the Design Automation Conference (DAC) is being held. Cecilia stated that hotel space is limited, so make reservations as soon as possible. Bob stated that the Upcoming Events link on the EIA IBIS home page has a DAC99 link which would also have housing and hotel information. At the IBIS Summit, we will conduct our annual election of officers. People interested in holding an office are invited to contact Bob or other officers. Bob also anticipated that we may also devote some meeting time to discussing some letter ballot comments that have been received to date. Also several people are planning presentations. So we will invite discussion on any of our current topics including Accuracy Specification, Connector Specification, IMIC and new features, etc. Bob noted that Matthew Flora will handle the sign-ups for the meeting. Some details are already on the Upcoming Events link on the EIA IBIS home page. Matthew can be contacted at mbflora@hyperlynx.com or (425) 869-2320. Bob and Matthew will send out an announcement regarding the meeting. AR - Bob Ross and Matthew Flora send out an announcement for the EIA IBIS Summit Meeting on June 21, 1999. SP-4557 - IBIS VERSION 3.2 LETTER BALLOT Bob Ross reported that IBIS Version 3.2 is now open for public review and company voting for EIA and ANSI ratification. The links to the ballot form and to the document being reviewed are on the top level of the EIA IBIS home page: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm The project is noted as Standards Proposal 4557 (SP-4557). We are using the ver3_2.pdf document with page numbers and a table of contents for keywords that Arpad Muranyi produced. The ballot document SP-4557.pdf is to be mailed or FAXed back to EIA. Bob asked Cecilia Fleming to forward any comments received so that the EIA IBIS Open Forum can deal with them as soon as possible. Editorial comments are welcome, and Bob will be maintaining a revision document with corrections. Cecilia stated that she encourages a large turnout. Matthew Flora and Arpad mentioned that they had some editorial comments. Cecilia stated that she sent the ballot for notification and publication in an official ANSI newsletter for comments. The letter ballot deadline is June 23, 1999, but the ANSI deadline may be later. Cecilia will check on this and report to Bob. So the closing date for responses will be after the June 21, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting. Bob noted that the voting information was sent to the IBIS reflectors, the SI reflector, JEDEC and to some other interested parties. Stephen Peters asked, and Bob confirmed that the official vote is by company. Bob also noted that the BIRD58.1 changes are expected to be submitted as a letter ballot editorial comment. IBIS TRAINING COURSE Bob Ross stated that Arpad Muranyi is making available his "Introduction to IBIS Models and IBIS Model Making" class Power Point slides to the IBIS Open Forum for downloading. This class was given in Phoenix Arizona as part of an Arizona State University short course. Bob Haller stated that the IBIS Users Group would be very interested in this material. Bob Ross stated that this course could be used to seed future IBIS education development. Arpad noted that he has Lab exercises, but upon questioning, noted that they require the internal IBIS Center tool. So the Lab exercises will not be uploaded. Arpad will send Bob a letter giving the EIA IBIS Open Forum permission to make public the course material [Done]. Bob noted that he will work with Syed Huq on providing a link to the material from the EIA IBIS Home page. AR - Bob Ross upload the IBIS Class slides provided by Arpad Muranyi to http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/ [Done] COOKBOOK STATUS Stephen Peters commented that the timing and Vmeas clarification he recently sent to the IBIS reflector is added to his internal version of the IBIS Cookbook where he is collecting updates. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora distributed a model from Galileo Technology. S2IBIS2 MAINTENANCE AND S2IBIS3 (New Topic) Bob Ross initiated the discussion by noting that Scott McMorrow found a s2ibis2 source code bug and provided a correction. Also, Syed Huq had asked about work on s2ibis3 and some individuals in the IBIS Users Group commented on this. Bob stated that we have no formal mechanism to maintain s2ibis2 (and fix its defects) and we do not have an s2ibis3 project. He asked for ideas on how to proceed. Arpad Muranyi noted that currently s2ibis2 is offered as freeware. It could be sold. Bob added that he feels the best support comes from commercial offerings. Ian Dodd supported this position. Bob also mentioned that the s2ibis development was a funded project. We could consider how to fund s2ibis3 development (and s2ibis2 maintenance). Raj Raghuram was concerned that some vendors now provide commercial s2ibis translators which include some IBIS Version 3.X features. He felt that an IBIS Open Forum project may be in conflict with commercial offerings. Bob felt that the IBIS Open Forum should be permitted to maintain the existing s2ibis2 utility - and should deal with its problems, and the s2ibis3 would be a logical extension of this effort. The original idea of s2ibis was to provided a useful utility and also to seed the development of improved, commercial and Spice-specific versions. So continuing to do fixes and upgrades would continue to help everyone. Mike LaBonte noted that s2ibis2 is currently the most widely used utility to do SPICE to IBIS translation. He also asked if the IBIS page could list all of the vendors that supply s2ibis conversion. Bob noted that several links already exist to various free s2ibis conversion utilities. Per our policy, we do not provide direct links to commercial products. However, commercial offerings related to IBIS could be noted in a company's Roster entry or in a link on an EIA IBIS Open Forum members Poster link. Bob noted that s2ibis3 many not require an extensive list of enhancements because some of the features of IBIS Version 3.2 are formed by construction of parts of a model. Some extensions would be adding some subparameters that do not impact simulation and to perhaps deal with the [Series MOSFET] and [Series Current] models. Bob plans to continue this discussion at the next meeting. BUG34 - NO ERROR REPORTED FOR MISSING V/I TABLE IN OUTPUT BUFFERS Bob Ross noted that since no revised BUG34 proposal was generated, the discussion was deferred. Matthew Flora's AR is still open. AR - Matthew Flora issue a revised BUG34 to document the conditions where Warning messages are issued. IMIC AND IBIS As previously indicated, Bob Ross indicated that we will have more information after the meeting scheduled on May 12, 1999. We will discuss details on Merge, Linkage, and Independent standards options. Anyone who is interested is invited to attend. Matthew Flora asked for information concerning the history of the IMIC. Bob indicated that we have been aware of IMIC activities since about 1997, and several presentations (some of which are uploaded) have been given at IBIS Summit meetings that are documented in old IBIS minutes. Also the IMIC link (available through the EIA IBIS Home page) also points to some minutes documents. Bob indicated that the IMIC standard is being positioned to deal with power integrity and EMI problems to utilize the additional internal structural details. Raj Raghuram stated that the group is also working with an "ECALS" group on EMI issues. BIRD58.1 - DRIVER SCHEDULE KEYWORD CLARIFICATION Arpad Muranyi indicated that BIRD58 was issued to add a paragraph that was unintentionally omitted. As a result of some e-mail questions and the discussion at previous IBIS teleconference meetings, Arpad issued BIRD58.1 with some additions and rewording for the purposes of clarifying the original intent and not to introduce technical changes. Comments are welcome. Matthew Flora had a few editorial comments which he will provide to Arpad directly. Matthew questioned one clarification change regarding whether the power rails for [Voltage Range], [Pullup Reference], etc. are local to the scheduled model. After some discussion, Bob Ross indicated that that was the original intent and believes ibischk3 conducts the waveform voltage Warning check based on using the local power rails of the scheduled models. Matthew stated that he will check this. In paragraph 7, Matthew was confused about the time reference. After some discussion, we agreed to add the words "of the internal simulator pulse" because this wording is also used later in BIRD58.1. Matthew asked if this internal simulator pulse concept posed a restriction on some simulators. Arpad argued that the idea was consistent with the way simulators use the normal IBIS driver models. Bob Ross added that the simulator pulse widths and polarity could be adjusted so that only the internal simulator rising sequence or falling sequence is processed - if that were of concern in some simulators. Finally, Matthew asked whether the [Driver Schedule] methodology might create simulation discontinuities at the entered delay times. Arpad clarified that there should not be discontinuities since each of the scheduled drivers will have a [Ramp] or [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] to control the transition shape of the scheduled model operation. The scheduled time delay merely indicates the start of these transitions in a manner similar to how the regular driver [Model] operates. Arpad will collect the comments and issue BIRD58.2. Bob indicated that he will schedule a vote on BIRD58.2 at the next meeting. Also, BIRD58.2 will be referenced as a formal editorial comment to the Version 3.2 letter ballot. AR - Arpad Muranyi collect inputs and issue BIRD58.2. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (No Discussion) NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, May 28, 1999 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. A vote on BIRD58.2 is scheduled. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 17641 NE 67th Court Redmond, WA 98052 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================