DATE: 9/14/99 SUBJECT: 9/10/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic, Fred Ballesteri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte* Cisco Systems Syed Huq* Compaq Bob Haller*, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman, Maher Elasad Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Lynne Green, John Angulo* IBM Greg Edlund, Michael Cohen, Praven Patel Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles, Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson, Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou, Will Hobbs, Henri Maramis LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad, Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber, Karine Loudet, Hisham Gamal, Evgeny Wasserman Mitsubishi (Tam Cao) Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer, Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg, Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo, Christian Sporrer SiQual Scott McMorrow Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah, Ramzi Ammar, Thomas Fisher Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, Cary Mandel, (Jon Powell) VeriBest Ian Dodd VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions* OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999: 3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Alcatel Steven Criel Analytical Edge Robert Easson Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson BMW Friedrich Haslinger Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf Celestica Danny Da Silva ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming*, Dan Heinemeier Electronique Catherine Gross EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch FCI John Ellis High Design Technology Razvan Ene Hitachi ULSI Hideki Fukuda Infineon Thomas Latzel Intracon Design Mike Osmond Litton Systems Robert Bremer Matsushita Atsuji Itoh Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Nortel Networks Martin Hall (& at Viewlogic), Calvin Trowell Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer Praegitzer Design Rick Newell Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi Shindengen Tsuyoshi Horigome Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre StorageTek Nick Krull Sun Microsystems Victor Chang, Kevin Ko Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter Teradyne Mikhail Khusid VDOL Robert Novosel Xilinx Susan Wu (Unaffiliated, Retired) Bruce Wenniger In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 1, 1999 (916) 356-9200 8-40171 4196281 October 14, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming noted that invoices have been sent to members that have been dropped. Bob Ross stated that we have 30 official members and also a potential new member pending payment. Bob also mentioned that Guy de Burgh has been updating the membership list with primary and secondary members as required by EIA. He still needs responses from about six member companies. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The August 20, 1999 Minutes were approved without corrections. Bob Ross noted that work has been done on the following AR's, and they will be discussed at the next meeting: AR - Bob Ross and Cecilia Fleming research what is needed to align the IBIS bylaws with EP-20. AR - Bob Ross and Cecilia Fleming write position definitions for the new positions of Webmaster and Postmaster. Other AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross stated that we will discuss the issue of IBIS dues and funding at the next meeting. We currently collect about $15,000 per year. Our direct expenditures are modest. However, we do need to provide funding to EIA for their staffing and services. Based on EIA budget allocations among various committees, we need to provide an estimated $22,000 for year 2000. Bob plans to provide more budget information on the IBIS reflector. Some possible proposals for discussion might include raising the membership fee to $750 or higher, have a split membership fee of $500 for small companies and $1000 for large companies, or have a higher membership fee (say $2000) to cover other expenses as well. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq indicated that he updated Specification page so that it describes Version 3.2 as the August 20, 1999 version of IBIS. Syed also updated the HyperLynx logo and added the Avanti logo to the IBIS Poster page. He removed the AMP logo. Syed has received a lot of Roster updates from members along with membership information from Guy de Burgh. Syed plans to have the Roster updated next week. Bob Ross uploaded a revised version timing101.ppt by Todd Westerhoff in the training directory as timing101b.zip: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/ NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross noted that the Samsung IBIS model link previously published no longer points to any IBIS models. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Stephen Peters on BIRD63 - Documentation of Receiver Setup and Hold Timing Conditions Bob Ross on comments on Will Hobb's API (Mentioned briefly in the BIRD61 discussion) Arpad Muranyi on list of IBIS Version 4.0 functions (also Connector Specification Status already scheduled) (Not discussed) Mike LaBonte on time spent on formal certification processes INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Cecilia Fleming reported no further news on the comments she forwarded to IEC in response to the letter ballot. Bob Ross stated again that the TC93 meeting is being held in Arlington, Virginia on September 22-23 and that IEC 62014-1 is on the agenda. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross had no further report. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross reported that Jean-Claude Perrin held a meeting at UTE in Paris on August 31, 1999 in preparation for the TC93 meeting. He is also continuing to do power supply HF current measurements on selected circuits. Test boards are under design. - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - D.C. Sessions reported that he will be in Vancouver, British Columbia at a JEDEC meeting and will report in a formal presentation on the progress on BIRD61, BIRD62, and BIRD63. These BIRDs are of great interest to JEDEC and are needed for specifying certain new technologies. D.C. noted that he will send copies of his presentation to anyone who request them directly from him. EIA-656-A AND ANSI/EIA-656-A UPDATE Cecilia Fleming reported that EIA-656-A has been sent to Global Engineering for publication. It has also been sent to ANSI, and she expects approval in two to three weeks. Stephen Peters asked about a possible press release. Bob Ross stated that he plans that EIA issue a press release announcing ANSI/EIA-656-A as soon as ANSI approval is achieved. IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS Bob Haller reported that the IBIS Users Group is meeting on Wednesday, September 15, 1999 (3 PM to 5 PM Eastern time) at NESA in Stow, Massachusetts. The agenda is to prepare for the IBIS Summit Meeting. It will be possible to teleconference into this meeting. Bob noted that several people are working on some accuracy test cases. More help from others would be welcome. IBIS SUMMIT OCTOBER 14, 1999 Bob Ross noted that a second call for presentations, participation and sponsorship has been sent out for the IBIS Summit meeting scheduled on Thursday, October 14, 1999 at Marlborough, Massachusetts during the week of the PCB Conference East. Bob reported on recent information from Kathy Breda. About 10 people have signed up. Several people commented that they plan to attend and may not be included in Kathy's count. Bob stated that is about what is expected at this time. So far Praegitzer, Cadence and NESA (along with the IBIS Users Group) are expected to be co-sponsors. We still need to follow up on some other potential sponsors. One presentation has been submitted so far: Tables and Equations by Lynn Green, HyperLynx A few others are expected. However, Bob would like to have more time for group discussion topics. Topics will probably include Business (if needed) Accuracy Specification Connector Specification Input Modeling Spice to IBIS With about one hour each and a few presentations, we can easily take a full day. Stephen Peters mentioned that a few slides could be given in the Input Modeling presentation. Bob Haller noted that it would be good to have the discussions first, since longer than expected presentations might cut into some valuable discussion. S2IBIS3 COMMITTEE REPORT Arpad Muranyi reported that two meetings occurred on August 25, 1999 and on September 2, 1999. The group is continuing to go over the list of improvements from Michael Cohen's presentation at the June 18, 1999 IBIS Summit meeting. Arpad made available the IBIS Center program to the committee members. Syed Huq stated that he plans to draft a requirements document. Bob Ross noted that the next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, September 30, 1999. COOKBOOK STATUS Stephen Peters had no report. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora sent out a model from Transmeta for review. The model did reveal a potential ibischk3 problem. Matthew also stated that he needs some new people (replacing some individuals no longer with the companies) to send models to. TIME SPENT ON FORMAL CERTIFICATION PROCESS (new topic) In proposing this topic, Mike LaBonte asked if the Committee had spent too much time on the final processing of comments in order to formally approve EIA-656-A. This detracted from other ongoing activities. Bob Ross listed a number of ongoing Committee activities including the Accuracy Specification, Connector Specification, ibischk3 bugs, Spice to IBIS conversion, and general IBIS Version 4.0 issues (such as Input Modeling). In introducing the discussion, Bob stated that the document had undergone a formal public review, and we needed to follow some rigorous processes to assure that all concerns were properly addressed. The process actually went smoothly since no really controversial issues emerged. We do not expect to undergo this type of process until we deal with formal EIA ratification of IBIS Version 4.X. However, a similar review process would be applied to any other document that would be considered for EIA and ANSI standardization (such as the Accuracy Specification). D.C. Sessions commented that we did produce a better document as a result of the review process. Stephen Peters was concerned by the amount of time spent on line-by-line review of comments. Bob suggested that some of this could have been handled off line by a committee. We would then just vote on the committee recommendation. Bob also noted that we did allow at least two weeks to consider any significant comment and response. Mike LaBonte suggested that during such an intensive period of review we could also schedule more IBIS meetings. Bob noted that during that time the IBIS meetings were at two-week intervals. We also could have conducted the voting off-line by e-mail. ACCURACY SPECIFICATION DISCUSSION Bob Haller introduced the discussion by stating that the purpose of the Accuracy Specification document is to provide a method for model creators to communicate to model users that the model has been tested for accuracy. Furthermore, it communicates how the model correlates with reference data. Bob mentioned that several individuals are attempting to do some correlation studies, but more help will be welcome. Bob Ross stated that the accuracy specification itself needs to be applied as a reality check and to uncover any issues, especially with correlation methods. Syed Huq asked whether the Accuracy Specification was to be used for complex devices. Bob Haller answered that it focused on all I/O pins of any device. Bob indicated that some of the tests could be done with Spice Models assuming that the Spice model correlation to measurement was known. D.C. Sessions added that a good test engineer can modify existing tests used in production to do some of the IBIS test extractions. In fact, the IBIS formatted data can be used as the parametric definition of I/Os. Syed commented that the V-T tables were more difficult to extract. D.C. argued that test engineers can also provide transient responses. Bob Haller stated that a keyword could be added to indicate that accuracy information exists for the model. Bob and Stephen Peters both stated that having such information provided confidence in the model. Stephen Peters wondered if the document should be referred to as a Validation Specification. Bob stated that this had been considered by the Accuracy Committee. In the introduction of the document a definition of Accuracy is given as a measure of the true value. Bob Ross commented that validation processes might also consider the values of other parameters such as input thresholds that are not measured. Mike LaBonte mentioned that some reference waveforms could be incorporated into the Spice to IBIS requirements. Bob Ross concluded that more discussion will be scheduled at IBIS Summit meeting. IBISCHK3 BUG REPORT STATUS Bob Ross introduced the issue regarding how we deal with ibischk3 bugs. Fixes to both BUG36 and BUG37 are known and are fairly simple. The question is who should implement the fixes. At this time we do not have funds for more parser work by Atul Agarwal. Even so, simple fixes could be done by Matthew Flora, Chris Rokusek or Atul. D.C. Sessions commented that the Linux model uses a method of source code control. Matthew stated that he, Chris and Atul use RCS and do share with each other any fixes to assure that the common code base is the same. In response to comments, Bob stated that thirteen companies have funded the ibischk3 parser development. After some discussion, Bob stated that he work with Atul, Chris and Matthew on suggestions to implement bug fixes. AR - Bob Ross ask Atul Agarwal, Chris Rokusek, and Matthew Flora their recommendations on fixing bugs. Also D.C. Sessions and Syed Huq may be consulted concerning source code control and Linux models. Matthew stated that he now has more time. He is working on BUG34 suggestions with respect to the existing AR: AR - Matthew Flora issue a revised BUG34 to document the conditions where Warning messages are issued. Matthew introduced another issue where ibischk3 may operate in a compiler specific manner. Under Windows, the check for searching the director for .pkg files in the same directory may call some compiler-specific utilities. D.C. commented that compiler switches are often used. BIRD62 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS Stephen Peters introduced BIRD62 first since BIRD61 has already been discussed at the August 20, 1999 IBIS Meeting. The intent of BIRD62 is to provide receiver threshold specification in a tighter manner than possible using Vinh and Vinl. BIRD62 adds the keyword [Receiver Thresholds] (or [Receiver Spec]) and new threshold subparameters. These subparameters are made relative to a designated receiver trip point subparameter Vth. The trip point can vary with supply voltage changes or external reference voltage changes in a designated manner. Stephen commented that the traditional typ-min-max format is not used because the typ-min-max meaning is tied to just the voltage changes and not the process corners. Stephen also mentioned that the [Receiver Threshold] subparameters, if defined, would supersede the Vinh and Vinl information. This needs to be stated. D.C. Sessions noted that new technologies such as STTL and HSTL cannot be handled by existing IBIS Version 3.2 subparameters. BIRD62 is important to JEDEC. Bob Ross asked for clarification of Vth_min and Vth_max. Stephen indicated that Vth tracks voltage reference changes in the designated manner. Vth_min and Vth_max may give deviations from the Vth based on other tolerances or process changes. So the min and max meaning may be different. Stephen commented that may need to look at other terminology, if this is confusing. BIRD63 - DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS (new) Stephen Peters then introduced the recently issued BIRD63. BIRD63 defines the edge rate and overdrive conditions for defining the data book setup and hold test conditions. Stephen stated that the he has not yet reviewed the comments just issued by D.C. Sessions. Stephen expects some changes. BIRD63 introduces the [Tester Spec] keyword and subparameters for tester trip points. Similar to [Receiver Thresholds], the Tester_Vth defines the reference trip point. Tester_Vhigh and Tester_Vlow are offsets from Tester_Vth. Also similar to [Receiver Thresholds], the [Tester Spec] subparameters can be applied to single-ended or differential conditions. Tester slew rates are also defined. Stephen commented that BIRD63 supports different setup and hold slew rates. He did not know if different rates were used in practice. Often the value 1 V/ns is used. D.C. Sessions commented that the slew rate entry should be entered as one number, not as the ratio that is documented in BIRD63. Bob Ross commented that some of the subparameters for both BIRD62 and BIRD63 may fit into the [Model Spec] keyword. He was also concerned using the same subparameter for both single-ended or differential entries, where the where the definition is differentiated by a subparameter value. Bob felt that different subparameter names are needed for differential definitions. BIRD61 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Stephen Peters introduced the discussion on BIRD61 by noting that BIRD61 was intended to provide sufficient information to produce an abstract model for describing an receiver and internal delays associated with arbitrary input waveforms. A model needs to be extracted from the information tables. It could be adjustment coefficients or an equation. The tables themselves were not intended to be used directly. Stephen stated that he received some comments indicating that more information in the form of a three-dimensional table might be needed. D.C. Sessions commented on the need for a logical receiver model. Perhaps a generic Spice Model could be developed as the basis of a receiver model. Bob Ross commented that the actual Spice model itself is the logical receiver model, but business constraints prevent it from being issued. So the technical challenge is to seek a alternative to an existing solution that is of the required accuracy. Bob also noted that he wanted to avoid different solutions that might support vendor differentiation. That would not serve the industry. Also, Bob mentioned that this issue could relate to the API issue raised by Will Hobbs. (We did not have time to discuss this issue directly.) The API would allow executing the actual Spice model without requiring it to be revealed. Bob stated that this discussion should be continued on the reflector and that he plans to issue some comments. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL STATUS Matthew Flora reported that Kellee Crisafulli has been doing more work on the Connector proposal and may send out some material next week. NUMBER OF POINTS IN VT TABLE Not discussed. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, October 1, 1999 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@viewlogic.com Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================