DATE: 11/23/99 SUBJECT: 11/19/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic, Fred Ballesteri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff Cisco Systems Syed Huq* Compaq Bob Haller*, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman, Maher Elasad, Peter LaFlamme, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Alex Nosovitski, Shan Haq Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem, Graham Connolly, Christian Klein H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli*, Lynne Green, John Angulo*, Gene Garat, Robin Edwards IBM Greg Edlund, Michael Cohen*, Praven Patel, Paul Clouser Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles, Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson, Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou, Will Hobbs, Henri Maramis LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad, Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber, Karine Loudet, Hisham Gamal, Evgeny Wasserman, Tom Dagostino, Mohamed Nasef Mitsubishi (Tam Cao) Motorola Ron Werner* National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda, Ed Sayre III, Jinhua Chen NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Nortel Networks Martin Hall (& at Viewlogic), Calvin Trowell Ross Pryor Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer, Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg, Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo, Christian Sporrer SiQual Scott McMorrow* Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah, Ramzi Ammar, Thomas Fisher Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, Cary Mandel, (Jon Powell) VeriBest [Ian Dodd] Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999: 3Com Roy Leventhal 3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Alcatel Steven Criel Analytical Edge Robert Easson Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson BMW Friedrich Haslinger Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf Celestica Danny Da Silva Dynamics Research Corporation Mike Walsh ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming, Dan Heinemeier Electronique Catherine Gross EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch FCI John Ellis Foxcomm Jeff Walden General DataComm Laurence Michaels High Design Technology Razvan Ene Hitachi ULSI Hideki Fukuda Infineon Thomas Latzel Intracon Design Mike Osmond KAW Shinichi Maeda Litton Systems Robert Bremer Lucent Jason Pritchard Matsushita Atsuji Itoh Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Newbridge Networks Bruce Carlile Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer Praegitzer Design Rick Newell, Paul Galloway, Joe Socha Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau Rode Consulting Chris Rode Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi Shindengen Tsuyoshi Horigome Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre Stratus Keith Vieira StorageTek Nick Krull Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Kevin Ko, Greg Fitzgerald, Nick LaPlaca Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter Teradyne Mikhail Khusid VDOL Robert Novosel Xilinx Susan Wu (Unaffiliated, Retired) Bruce Wenniger In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode December 3, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-368940 5714412 December 17, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-368942 8917482 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Ron Werner of Motorola joined and introduce himself as a user of IBIS models and also as the Chair of the Design Automation Division at EIA under which the EIA IBIS Open Forum resides. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross indicated that the membership still is at 32, but this will drop to 30 next year due to some acquisitions of member companies by member companies. Bob indicated that Cecilia Fleming (who could not attend this meeting) is allocating several thousand dollars of royalty revenue to the IBIS Committee based on the re-distribution of revenues from a discontinued EIA Committee. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The October 29, 1999 IBIS Open Forum Meeting minutes were approved without change. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq indicated that there is a Siemens roster update. He also added new links on EIA IBIS Home page for Connector Info and (later in the meeting) for the s2ibis3 Project. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross indicated that Jon Powell plans to update the Model Page next week. Bob also indicated more IBIS models now exist under several company links, and/or the pages have been re-located for Philips Semiconductor, TI, and Motorola. Some IBIS model links appear to have disappeared probably as result of mergers and acquisitions (for example, IC Works and Quality Semiconductor). The Hewlett Packard link for the VCSEL Transceiver IBIS Mole is now under the Agilent link: http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com/fiber/ibis.html Matthew Flora reported that the Intel PCI-to-PCI Bridge IBIS Models are under: http://developer.intel.com/design/bridge/ibis/index.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Scott McMorrow on BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref Addition INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Bob Ross had no further progress report from Cecilia Fleming. However formal ratification of IBIS Version 3.2 as IEC 62104-1 is still expect shortly (months or less). - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross had no further report and repeated from last meeting that a Version 1.2 has been posted for review with a deadline of December 25, 1999. Note added after the meeting: the link to the document has been moved and is now located at the bottom of: http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/eds/iopg.htm - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross had no report. - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross had no report. DESIGNCON 2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross stated that the IBIS Summit meeting is being held on Monday, January 31, 2000 in Santa Clara, California. The IBIS Open Forum is listed again as an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2000 which means that DesignCon is providing the meeting room and refreshments and also booth space. Milt Schwartz offered that National Semiconductor is sponsoring again the buffet luncheon. He also stated that presenters may send him electronic copies, and National Semiconductor will make copies available at the meeting. Bob indicated that Jon Powell will be providing the booth and coordinating the setup. He plans again to have IBIS Open Forum member company logos posted on the backdrop. It will be a place to meet, pick up literature, and possibly host an electronic accuracy demonstration. Bob stated plans that we will be sending out the first notice in early December. We do have several presentations and will plan on some extended discussions on some of the new topics that are now being considered. DATE2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross commented that the DATE2000 IBIS Summit meeting associated with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe conference is still planned to be held in Paris, France on Friday, March 31, 2000. However, the meeting date may be moved up to Monday, March 27 in order to find a suitable room. Mentor Graphics and Incases are co-sponsors, but others are expected. The PCB Symposium is scheduled for Thursday, March 30, 2000. S2IBIS3 COMMITTEE REPORT Michael Cohen listed and thanked the participants of the Spice to IBIS subcommittee for the work done, and particularly Syed Huq for serving as the editor of a draft requirements document. Several weekly meetings were held, and the document is now ready for the IBIS Open Forum to review. Syed stated that a link exists to the directory where the document resides from the IBIS Home Page under s2ibis3 Project: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm or directly from http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/s2ibis3/ Everyone is invited to review and comment on the contents of the document. The committee wants feedback before it is officially released. Michael stated that the next meeting is planned for Thursday, December 2, 1999 to draft a letter requesting bids on the requirements. Raj Raghuram voiced his concern that this project may compete with existing commercial products and questioned whether it was appropriate for the IBIS Open Forum to pursue this. Furthermore, the IBIS Open Forum had visibility of such products. We discussed this briefly, and Bob Ross asked to plan further discussion at the next meeting since we had several other topics to discuss. IBIS DUES AND FUNDING Bob Ross reported on the e-mail ballot votes tallied by Guy de Burgh (who could not attend this meeting) plus some votes from attendees at the meeting that were either not sent or not yet received and reported by Guy. The total official vote to change the yearly IBIS Open Forum dues to $750.00 is 23 YES, 2 NO, and 7 No-responses. Bob reported each company's vote at the meeting. Bob then stated that two of the No-responses were from companies that had merged with other member companies that had voted YES. Bob considered that their vote could be also be counted as YES. However, these additional votes were not technically needed. Consistent with the most stringent internal IBIS requirement that two-thirds (21) of the official EIA IBIS Open Forum Members must approve a Charter change, the new rate is official approved. NEW IBIS OFFICER POSITIONS Bob also reported on the e-mail ballot votes tallied by Guy de Burgh the vote on the Charter change to add the Postmaster and Webmaster positions as official EIA IBIS Open Forum officers. Bob also collected unreported votes at the meeting. The official vote is 24 YES, 0 NO and 8 No-responses. Bob reported each company's vote at the meeting. Although not technically needed, two of the No-response votes could also fall in the YES category. The Charter revision creating the new positions is officially approved. The revised section that was published in the October 29, 1999 minutes is repeated for reference: Position Responsibilities ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chairperson Oversee all forum activities, preside at all general meetings. Finance authority. This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Vice Chair Cover for chair and secretary in their absence, coordinate all public relations (press releases, media contacts). This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Secretary Coordinate logistics of all meetings, take and publish meeting minutes within 10 days of meeting. [Delete this task since it is transferred to the Postmaster: Work with or act as file server sysop to maintain the reflector and on-line files.] This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Librarian Maintain the library of public IBIS models, including verifying authenticity and compliance before posting. This person does not need to be an employee of Membership Company. Webmaster Maintains the contents of the official EIA IBIS Open Forum Web site and Roster files under www.eia.org either directly or through contact with EIA staff. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Postmaster Maintains the e-mail distribution lists and performs file server sysop activities for the on-line files on the IBIS site: www.eda.org/pub/ibis/. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL Bob Ross moved the Connector Proposal discussion originally scheduled at the very end as the next item in the Agenda since Kellee Chrisafulli had to leave early. Kellee provided background information that a sub-committee of EDA vendors and connector vendors produced a draft connector specification document. The draft was presented at the February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting and was also uploaded for review. Several comments were made at that meeting. Most of the comments dealt with additional clarifications. The revised document is now available for review and for the IBIS Open Forum to take action. Kellee reported that the sub-committee decided to focus only on modeling connectors since that was the compelling need and also not to get bogged down in some more general issues associated with package models and electrical board descriptions. Kellee indicated that a previous proposal by the IBIS Open Forum might have died because it tried to be too general. Kellee stated that the new ideas in the connector document could be applied to package models in the future. Also, after further investigation, Kelly stated that the sub-committee decided to postpone dealing with frequency dependent losses. However, he saw no barrier to including them in a future version. As stated earlier, the link to the Connector Specification directory that contains the latest documents is now available from the EIA IBIS Home page and is also accessible directly at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/ Stephen Peters and Arpad Muranyi asked several clarifying questions on whether the (frequency dependent) conductance matrix was included, and Kellee responded that it was not. Furthermore he stated that the decision to postpone losses was made after consulting with a number of internal technical experts. Arpad stated that he reviewed the document and did not find any reference to length statements. Kellee thought that this was an oversight. Bob Ross stated that the IBIS Open Forum needed to look and validate the big decisions and also comment on the small issues. The February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit presentation which contains some committee rationale is also in the location above. The big issues include keeping the document focused on connectors only (versus expanding it to included packages and Electrical Board Descriptions), using the matrix methodology similar to the coupled package model methodology in the IBIS Standard (versus a nodal or Spice-like methodology), checking the EDA and connector vendor support, and deferring losses. The smaller issues deal with syntax alignment, with IBIS and some syntax and keyword decisions that are different from IBIS. Bob also commented that some sample connector models that were originally on the CD ROM given to attendees at the February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting were not uploaded. Kellee responded that he will check that the examples are consistent with the revised syntax and will work with Matthew Flora to upload the examples. Scott McMorrow raised the issue that modern connectors have tolerances and that minimum and maximum models are needed along with typical models. He also presented some ideas on syntax. Arpad suggested multiple connector models. Bob asked to postpone the discussion until the BIRD64 discussion since Scott had recently raised a similar concern on the BIRD64 proposal. Arpad asked whether the document would be processed as a separate document or a section in the IBIS document. Kellee stated that he would like to see the document as an official section in the IBIS document (along with package models, Electrical Board Descriptions). However, it is currently structured as a stand-alone document. Bob felt that it would be easier to deal with the document as a stand-alone document. The overall IBIS document was becoming very large and there were other IBIS issues being considered that could slow down the release of the connector document if it were to be included as part of IBIS. Bob outlined a scenario similar to the one used to ratify various levels of IBIS. The EIA IBIS Open Forum could seriously review the document and then ratify it at a "Version 1.0" level once all the issues have been resolved. A separate Connector BIRD process might be used if a number of issues were raised. This would stabilize the syntax. Then a parser could be developed to check the syntax and also to independently review and uncover confusing or unclear sections in the document. A number of editorial and possibly minor technical changes would be made, and the revised document would be ratified at the Version 1.1 level. Then it might be forwarded to EIA for a public letter ballot review as part of the national EIA and ANSI ratification process. Ron Werner concurred with this approach and suggested that we continue to process the Connector document as an independent document. COOKBOOK STATUS The normal Agenda sequence was then resumed. Stephen Peters had no report. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that a new model from Intel has been distributed for review. BUG34 - NO ERRORS REPORTED FOR MISSING V/I TABLES IN OUTPUT BUFFERS Bob Ross asked Matthew Flora to defer the discussion on BUG34 until a later meeting. Unlike some of the BUGs where a simple solution exists, this bug contains some enhanced Warning messages that need to be discussed. Bob plans to send this BUG out to the IBIS reflectors for reference. Also, we need to decide who will provide the fix. Currently two minor BUGs have been fixed, but they not significant enough to go through the processes to issue a new ibischk3 release at this time. BIRD61 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS BIRD62 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS (discussed First) BIRD63 - DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS Stephen Peters still has not had time to provide updates and corrections to BIRD62 and BIRD63 in response to comments. Stephen also stated that BIRD61 needs some further work to describe behavioral receivers. He expects Don Telium of Cadence to present some ideas at the IBIS Summit meeting on January 31, 2000. While not directly related to the above BIRDs, Bob Ross mentioned that the IBIS Committee is at a cross-roads. The Version 3.2 document is already quite large. It can be improved, but we need to decide between some fundamental and possibly overlapping approaches that are now being proposed. So the content of IBIS Version 4.0 might be just minor specification and technical improvements associated with current technology or it might include some major additions. Some proposals and activities include: IBIS Version 4.0 Specification additions (including BIRDs 62, 63, 66) Input Modeling Simulation (BIRD61) Other Version 4.0 technical details (BIRDs 64, 65, and more) IBIS-X to be discussed later, possible alternative BIRDxxx, and possible inclusion of an application programmable interface (API). Possibly resurrecting older proposals related to SSO, ground bounce. Spice and IMIC links Considering analog VHDL Connector Specification Other Activities - Spice to IBIS, Accuracy Specification, Education, etc. Bob concluded that at least some minor refinements to IBIS Version 3.2 leading to IBIS 4.0 are needed and can be ratified at this time without conflicting with other possible approaches. BIRD64 - PACKAGE MODEL SELECTOR Bob Ross and Arpad Muranyi commented on some of the alternatives presented in response to BIRD64 to allow package model selections for an IBIS Component. These alternatives include: Do nothing, just issue separate component models Use [Package Model Selector] to list separate choices as in BIRD64 Use [Package Model Selector] in a manner similar to [Model Selector] (also extend [Package Model] syntax to include typ, min, max models) Scott McMorrow discussed another option that he recently presented on the IBIS reflector. He proposed a syntax for using the [Package Model Selector] for different packages, and each of these packages would have columns for typ, min and max models. Scott argued that this extension would also be useful for Electrical Board Descriptions and would avoid loading several Component models for the same component. The newer syntax would also support having EDA tools doing package model selection automatically for corner analysis. Scott gave an example of a 208 pin BGA. He stated that the typical column package model might reference the single line model, the minimum column model might reference the odd-mode extraction, and the maximum column model might reference the even-mode extraction. More discussion occurred. Bob commented that there were two different applications. One application was to select different packages and one was to select typ, min, and max variations of the same package. An original, IBIS assumption has been that detailed pin level models gave would be relatively constant compared to the wider electrical variations between typ, min, and max I/O buffer models. We ended the discussion in order to move on to the next Agenda items. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross commented that BIRD65 might be an easy technical addition to ratify, but needs to be considered in the context of some other fundamental proposals that might better deal with current distribution details. Bob asked Arpad to defer the discussion so we could move on to other Agenda topics. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION (Inserted Agenda Item) Scott McMorrow introduced BIRD66, He proposed adding Vref as a [Model Spec] subparameter to allow different Vref values for min and max voltage settings. Scott argued that this variation is needed to support certain technologies such as SSTL. Bob Ross commented that we have considered this before and will need more time to discuss it fully. BIRD66 opens the door again for allowing other possibilities such as also allowing min and max Rref and Cref values, adding an Rseries element in the test load (as in SSTL) and also specifying independent loads for rising and falling edges (such as those used in some PCI specifications.) IBIS-X In the remaining time Stephen Peters introduced a general IBIS-X proposal that he recently sent to the IBIS reflector. The issues he wanted to address are: The IBIS document is becoming too complex Extensions are needed for detailed power and ground return path analysis Behavioral receiver models are needed An Application Program Interface (API) escape mechanism is needed for solutions which have not been standardized (such as nodal syntax and black box support) Stephen started by questioning what is need to support an API. The elements of the IBIS-X proposal then evolved. Like IBIS, IBIS-X is component centric. However, it is not entirely backward compatible. It contains some of the more useful IBIS syntax and table structure, but uses a [Begin Component] and [End Component] and [Begin Model] and [End Model] module structure. The Model syntax is expanded to include ports to document the ground and power connections. Arpad Muranyi stated that he agrees with the goals. In general he sees the benefit of having IBIS (with specification detail) and having Spice. In fact Arpad stated that would be nice if Spice Vendors would add specification detail. Arpad also has a potentially simpler "BIRDxxx approach based on some keyword additions to IBIS to add a [Die Interconnect] section. This would be in addition to the Package Model, Electrical Board Description, and possible Connector sections Bob Ross concluded the discussion by briefly presenting some more elements contained in the IBIS-X proposal: Proposed BIRD6x keywords: [Reference Voltage] [Driver Spec] [Receiver Spec] Port list Nodal syntax addition for L, R, C, I, V, S (equations) and X (subcircuits) [Submodel] Bob indicated that the discussion will be continued. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 3, 1999 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. The following meeting will be on Friday, December 17, 1999. Two meetings spaced two weeks apart were scheduled so that we could devote more time to the significant technical issues that are now emerging. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@viewlogic.com Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jpowell@viewlogic.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm/ Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================