DATE: 2/29/00 SUBJECT: 2/25/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Ballesteri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd, Donald Telian Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq Bob Haller, Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella), Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat, John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen* Incases (Werner Rissiek) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed Molex Incorporated Gus Panella* Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Nortel Networks Steve Coe Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions* (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, Jun Tian, (Jon Powell) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Brocade Communications Robert Badal EIA Cecilia Fleming* Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode March 17, 2000 (916) 356-9200 4-299298 8432634 March 31, 2000 - DATE 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting (No Bridge) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Ross noted that Viewlogic Systems plans to change its name to Innoveda. We will change the participants list when this change is formalized. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that another connector company plans to join the IBIS Open Forum. Cecilia Fleming will send out invoice reminders in March. We have payment from about 20 companies so far, but have not received payment from many of the most active participants. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The minutes of January 14, 2000 were approved without change. Bob Ross corrected the company name to Advansis for Mikio Kiyono on the January 31, 2000 IBIS Summit Minutes and made minor editorial corrections. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq added KAW and Apt Software to the IBIS Participation Roster. Syed also updated the Upcoming Events. He also broke out the Articles link into Articles, Presentations, Tutorials, and IBIS Summit Meetings. Bob Ross mentioned that the article "Cadence Rolls Intel Xeon Kit" on page 58 in the February 21, 2000 issue of Electronic Engineering Times references usage of IBIS Version 3.2 models. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that two Infineon Technology ATM IBIS Models exit at: http://www.infineon.com/products/commics/abm.htm http://www.infineon.com/products/commics/aop.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming reported that this IEC has possibly approved this document December 1999, but the publication target is around August 2000. We need to look into this further. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross had no updates. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross will meet with the group in Paris on Thursday, March 30, 2000 before the IBIS Summit Meeting. - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross asked D.C. Sessions to report on this during the JEDEC/IBIS Working Group meeting scheduled below as an agenda item. DESIGNCON 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK Bob Ross asked for any feedback. Bob felt that the meeting was successful and we had good discussion on the IBIS future direction issues. The IBIS Booth was also successful and served its purpose as a meeting place and also to demonstrate connector and accuracy measurements. JEDEC/IBIS WORKING GROUP MEETING REPORT Bob Ross gave a report on the JEDEC/IBIS Working Group meeting based on the brief notes that were appended to the January 31, 2000 IBIS Minutes. These notes are repeated here: ------------ JEDEC/IBIS WORKING GROUP MEETING - BRIEF NOTES Date/Time: Thursday, February 3, 2000, 1:00 PM - 5:00 PM Location/Host: Philips Semiconductor, San Jose, CA, D.C. Sessions Title: IBIS as a Specification Language Attendees: IBIS: Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx Fred Ballesteri, Applied Simulation Technology Mike LaBonte, Cadence Design Systems Richard Mellitz, Intel Arpad Muranyi, Intel JEDEC: D.C. Sessions, Philips Semiconductor (Chair JC-16) Gil Russell, Infineon Technologies (Chair., JC-16.2) Howard Sussman, Sanyo Driving Force: Advances in DDR DRAMS Specification Needs (more clarification needed): 1. Differential Output Coupling at the Buffer to Pad level 2. A delta C_comp limit for buffers at the component level 3. SSTL-2 Input enhancements (BIRD62.2, BIRD63.2) Application Needs: 1. Relative Pad Delay (Skew in delay to pad) 2. Return Path details (possibly using Dr. Unger's SSN approach above) 3. Input Modeling (initially BIRD62.2, BIRD62.3 An IBIS Working Group on consisting of (at least) Arpad Muranyi, Kellee Crisafulli, Mike LaBonte, D.C. Sessions and Richard Mellitz will work on these issues and generate proposals. Next JEDEC and JC-16 and JC-42 Meetings: Friday, February 4, San Jose, California Report on the JEDEC/IBIS meeting and on future work Approximately March 7, 2000, Atlanta, Georgia ------------ Bob confirmed the above date for JC-16, and Stephen Nolan stated that JC-40 would meet on March 6, 2000. D.C. Sessions reported on the JEDEC Meeting held on February 4, 2000. The main action of interest to the IBIS Committee was to create a DDR SDRAM IBIS model. JEDEC member companies will submit their IBIS models and the goal is to come up with a composite model that can be used for specification. D.C. asked for IBIS committee volunteers to help. So far one manufacturer has supplied their IBIS model. Others have been promised. Bob initially suggested using the IBIS Model review committee. However, D.C. wanted more technical assistance. Bob and others will help. Since a number of manufacturers are competitors, there is sensitivity regarding who sees the models. D.C. asked the IBIS Committee to draft a letter of intent preserving the confidentiality of the individual IBIS models while helping construct the composite model. Normally these models are copyrighted. This letter of intent would allow the IBIS Committee to distribute the model. Bob wanted to take this issue offline with D.C. Bob saw no problem, but wanted to clarify some of the administrative issues and move on to other agenda items. Stephen Nolan indicated that other JEDEC subcommittees will also need to create specification IBIS Models. DATE2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross reviewed that the DATE2000 IBIS Summit meeting associated with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe conference is planned to be held in Paris, France on Friday, March 31, 2000. The meeting is planned to run from morning to early afternoon. Cadence Design has joined Incases, Viewlogic and Mentor Graphics as co-sponsors. Presentations planned so far cover these subjects (not necessarily the exact titles): Behavioral Receiver Modeling Patrick Dos Santos, Cadence Design Systems IEC EMC/EMI Standardization Update Jean Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments Siemens IBIS Modeling Requirements for Semiconductor Vendors Gerald Bannert, Siemens Tips and Tricks for Creating IBIS Models Cary Mandel, Viewlogic Validation IBIS Models Sherif Hammad, Mentor Bob plans some discussion of IBIS 4.0 and IBIS future plans. A few other presentations are welcome. The second announcement has been sent out. The signup contact person for this meeting will change due to maternity leave. COOKBOOK STATUS Stephen Peters had no report. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that another model from Galileo Technology has been sent for review. Matthew is also contacting other people to update the distribution list. We are seeking EDA vendor who will be able to simulate the models on their tools and provide knowledgeable feedback and suggestions directly to the model developer on a confidential basis. This is to help the model developer provide IBIS models which are valid and useful to all EDA vendor products. BIRD62.3 ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS Bob Ross stated that while BIRD62.3 had been scheduled for a vote, we had a recent changes to this and BIRD63.3. The IBIS Open Forum normally requires two weeks between final posting of an item for voting and the actual vote. This allows all interested parties to have an opportunity to review the pending document and prevents surprise changes. Stephen Peters outlined the changes. These changes were made in response to Bob's e-mail comments. Besides some notation changes, the main changes were to introduce new subparameters for differential specifications. These included Vcross_min and Vcross_max. Michael Cohen expressed concern that we are not using [Model Spec]. D.C. Sessions and Stephen reinforced that the min and max corners in [Model Spec] were had combined effects that differed from the definitions for Vth. The Vth_min and Vth_max conditions are deviations under typical conditions, and a formula is used to created the corner cases. This is documented in BIRD62.3. Milt Schwartz commented on the need for a differential load DC offset limits that might be measured at a split resistor common point. BIRD62.3 only deals with receiver thresholds. D.C. reinforced the need for BIRD62.3. In fact, he wanted to know and report at the next JEDEC meeting the level of EDA tool commitment to implementing the proposed [Receiver Thresholds] keyword. Bob expected EDA vendors to implement this feature, but in accordance to their product development cycles that are not made public. Bob stated while he would prefer not having the complications introduced by BIRD62.3, he was convinced that [Model Spec] would only be used for about one-half of the added functionality. He saw the need for BIRD62.3 based on the following reasons: - Recent JEDEC standards related to SSTL, and recent LVDS standards are using the terminology in BIRD62.3. Also actual component data sheets are using this terminology. - The variation of the external reference used for threshold cannot be correctly handled using the [Model Spec] keyword. - This proposal through the Vinh_ac and Vinl_ac adds new parameters that are similar to the margins used for receiver analysis. Arpad Muranyi noted the need for CMOS thresholds as a percentage of Vcc. Stephen stated that this would be covered. Milt asked if hysteresis inputs were covered. D.C. stated they were not and also that hysteresis inputs were undesirable because of potential timing skew problems. More discussion occurred regarding the need for the new keyword. Bob had some syntactical comments concerning conventions. He noted that a large list of voltage subparameters had a mixture of actual voltages, (Vth, Vth_max, Vth_min, Vcross_max, Vcross_min), delta voltages (Vinh_ac, Vinh_dc, Vinl_dc, and Vinl_ac), differential voltages (Vdiff_ac, Vdiff_dc), and a sensitivity designated by Vth_sensitivity. Bob also noted that Vth, Vth_max and Vth_min followed existing IBIS conventions. However, Vcross_min and Vcross_max did not have a "typical" counterpart. Stephen proposed renaming the subparameters to Vcross_low and Vcross_high. The Vdiff_ac and Vdiff_dc are clear since "diff" is used. Also, after some discussion, the "ac" and "dc" portions of Vinh and Vinl could signal differences from Vth. This would maintain the terminology that is similar to what JEDEC is using. Since all voltage subparameters begin with "V", the Vth_sensitivity may be confusing. Stephen plans to change this to Threshold_sensitivity. Finally, Stephen agreed with Bob's comment that the term Reserved Words was incorrect for some enumerated strings: Pullup_ref, Pulldown_ref, Gnd_clamp_ref, Power_clamp_ref, and Ext_ref. Stephen planned to issue BIRD62.4 with these changes. Bob will schedule BIRD62.4 for a vote at the next meeting. BIRD63.3 DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS Bob Ross introduced BIRD63.3 by questioning what the simulator tools are supposed to do with the [Tester Spec] information, as documented. A separate database would already contain the setup and hold times that were extracted in compliance with documented tester conditions of BIRD63.3. Michael Cohen thought the proposed [Tester Spec] was required, but noted that many data sheets do not have the proposed information. Bob stated that this keyword was optional. D.C. Sessions commented that this was the glue between analog and timing simulation. Stephen Peters thought that the simulator vendors would use this information under circuit simulation. D.C. stated that the intent was to provide an input timing limit. It was not intended to document changes in delay as a function of input wave shape. This is done in BIRD61.1. Stephen asked for clarification of the amplitudes of the input swing and at what points to measure the delay. D.C. stated the voltage should go between Vinh_ac and Vinl_ac. Stephen indicated that this information could be included in BIRD62.3 as another receiver subparameter. D.C. and others agreed with this change. Stephen agreed to include this in the revised BIRD62.3. Stephen stated that his AR was to issue BIRD62.4 with all of the changes discussed today (February 25, 2000). [Done] Bob will schedule BIRD63.3 for a vote at the next meeting, but with the expectation that BIRD63.3 will be rejected. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not Discussed. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Roy Leventhal commented on the need to get this specification approved and wanted to move faster on it. Bob Ross also wanted to move faster, but we have been spending time on IBIS 4.0 and IBIS futures issues as well. D.C. Sessions suggested that Bob issue a progress report on the Connector Specification on what is firm and what is unknown. Bob stated that he did not plan to do this. Instead, he noted that there was not any real know issues with the technical content in Version 0.93. The syntax and conventions are still being reviewed. Also we need to continue to address some of the areas of difference with IBIS Version 3.2. Justifiable differences are OK, but we all need to understand and reach collective agreement on them. Otherwise the changes may just reflect (probably valid) personal preferences, but may not of sufficient importance to conflict with the conventions set in IBIS Version 3.2. Since progress is going slowly, Bob suggested that he get with Gus Panella and Kellee Crisafulli off line to get agreement on some syntax and convention issues. This will avoid taking up teleconference time. (We can bring the remaining open issues to the IBIS Open Forum.) IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Not Discussed. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR Not Discussed. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Not Discussed. IBIS BUG TRACKING Although scheduled at the end, this topic was discussed at the early part of the meeting. Bob Ross had planned to have some new ibischk3 BUG reports ready for discussion and also formally discuss the solution proposals within BUG34 (No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers). Bob does plan for discussion at the next meeting. Bob stated that a new ibischk3 bug was reported. We made a change in IBIS Version 3.2 (from IBIS Version 3.1) where series elements now can connect to pins that contain Input and I/O and Output models. Before, only NC and Terminators were permitted. Unfortunately, the series tests for ibischk3 were not updated for this change. So ibischk3 will report an error when a series element is correctly connected to pins containing Input, I/O and Output buffers. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 17, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD62.3 and BIRD63.3 are scheduled for voting. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@viewlogic.com Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jpowell@viewlogic.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================