Date: 7/5/00 SUBJECT: 6/30/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella), Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat, John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian, Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Brocade Communications Robert Badal ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Micorelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode July 21, 2000 (916) 356-9200 6-234828 2232822 August 11, 2000 (916) 356-9200 6-234930 7474775 August 25, 2000 (916) 356-9200 4-347958 9918979 September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Guy de Burgh is checking and updating some primary and secondary IBIS membership names that exist on the roster so that we have an accurate list of contacts. He is following up on some known changes. Treasurer's report: Cecilia Fleming reported no change. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The May 26, 2000 and June 8, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming reported that she had moved the IBIS web site to the EIG server. You will be re-directed to the new site on Wednesday. Currently there is a notice that the site has moved. Cecilia Fleming has corresponded with the Webmaster (Syed Huq) about this move. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Mike LaBonte reported that he has taken a copy of the existing Web page and is checking and fixing broken links. He is approximately 50% of the way through this. When completed he will give this to Syed Huq to post on the IBIS web site. The current page still exists, which shows Jon Powell as Librarian. When the new page is ready Mike will contact Jon to see if he has received any new updates. Mike hopes to have the new page completed by the next meeting. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS No report. DAC 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK Guy de Burgh reported that all the presentation material and the minutes are now uploaded. The presentations can be found in: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun00 PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Need other sponsors. So far, Cadence and NESA will be a co-sponsors. Guy de Burgh will send out an email to invite others to be sponsors of this event. DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. Guy de Burgh reported that Bob Ross is working on preliminary arrangements for the EIA IBIS Open Forum to be an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2001. We have benefited from this arrangement the last few years. DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. We are planning to hold the IBIS Summit meeting on Monday, January 29, 2001. As a result we get to have a free, all day meeting on site and also a booth. We are listed in the literature as an Associate Sponsor. The terms have been circulated to the IBIS Officers and are generally acceptable. The only significant change from last year is the organizers want to list the IBIS Summit Meeting in the literature. Bob Ross feels this is OK as long as we can list a signup address so we can estimate the number of attendees for refreshments and lunch. Mike Cohen would like to know the size of the room that will be provided, as a "standing room only" size of room would not be acceptable. Guy de Burgh will ask Bob Ross to find out the size of a "large meeting room". Mike LaBonte pointed out that the signup would have to be an email address (the Secretary's) as it would not be possible to sign up at the show. Approval deferred to next meeting. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that a couple of models had come in from TI. Stephen Nolan questioned the whole value of the model evaluation procedure as the number of responses he's received was low. The response's he did receive were good though. He mentioned that the intent is good but the participation is poor. Matthew Flora noted that the number of people in the review committee is down recently. He explained how the group works, what its goals are, and how it responds to clients. Mike LaBonte mentioned that he reviews about 1-2 models per month and it takes him about 1-4 hours to review each model. As the reports are direct Mike wonders if anyone else is reviewing the same model and if effort is being duplicated. Stephen Nolan mentioned that he will still use the review committee for his models. Stephen Nolan would like the committee to publish a model validation checklist. Roy Leventhal suggested that the EDA vendors supply, under NDA, this data to semiconductor manufacturers. Mike Cohen asked if the committee makes recommendations if data is missing. Matthew Flora points out construction issues, but data issues depend on how much data is supplied by the reviewer. Stephen Nolan is writing a model building doc. for internal use and asked if the committee would review it. Matthew Flora suggested that this be sent to the IBIS users reflector for review. Milt Schwartz mentioned that created a starting point check list, which Stephen Nolan, suggested be posted on the ibis users reflector. Roy Leventhal will post his check list on the ibis uses reflector. Matthew Flora would like volunteers for the review committee. Please contact Matthew at mbflora@hyperlynx.com CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Ian Dodd mentioned that Gus Panella has put together examples of the swath matrix that has gone out to members of the group for review. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Mike LaBonte reported that he is hosting teleconference meeting on a bi-weekly basis since Stephen Peters is on sabbatical for several months. Stephen will still be available to prepare draft documents and work with the Working Group. Two meetings on June 14 and June 27 have been held so far. Mike reported that Mike LaBonte reported that there was a lot of discussion as to whether the language be targeted to current simulation capabilities or should it include capabilities that would require modification to the simulators. He mentioned Al Davis' macro language which has examples, but needs more documentation. A formal specification proposal is being developed. Stephen Peters may have this soon. Mike also reported that, since the last IBIS meeting where Mike Cohen had asked if silicon vendors would join this committee, Stephen Nolan from TI has joined. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING BUGS 41, 42, 43, 44 sent out to reflector for review. - BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers Not discussed. - BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Differential Pin Stephen Nolan proposed a motion to approve that this bug be fixed. Approved unanimously. Matthew Flora then described how the bug gets fixed. - BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed Matthew Flora said that a warning is appropriate, but would like to change the wording by adding more information and clarification to the message. Matthew will come up with appropriate wording. Arpad Muranyi suggested that we include other impossible combinations too. Matthew mentioned that we do not have to cover every possible combination, just the most common ones. Guy de Burgh suggested that everyone submit their favorite list to the BUG42 reflector for review. Mike LaBonte will submit his list. - BUG43 - Error for Zero or Negative dV/dt Ramp Data Needed Main discussion was on whether this should be a warning or an error. Matthew Flora and Roy Leventhal thought that this is a MEDIUM priority bug. Mike Cohen thought that this is a HIGH priority bug. The dV/dt data is required data whether or not you have VT data. Milt Schwartz uses the dV/dt data as a check of the validity of the VT data. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that if you have VT data you don't need dV/dt data but, as it is required, arbitrary meaningless numbers are put there. Mike LaBonte mentioned that people only look for errors, not warnings. Arpad suggested cross checking the dV/dt data against the VT data. Guy de Burgh suggested that this be an error if no VT data exists, and a warning if VT data exists. Arpad mentioned that the warning (or error) should follow the IBIS specification which specifies syntax rather than content. Matthew would like this as an error so that it stands out, as warnings are often ignored. Mike LaBonte mentioned that error and warning messages be based on how the model is being used. This would mean a configurable parser which would alleviate this particular bug. Matthew suggested the user be allowed to suppress specific error messages. This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting. - BUG44 - Warning for Parasitic Resistance Set Too High at 1000 Ohms Matthew Flora described the problem. Mike LaBonte suggested that this parameter can be determined from model data. Arpad Muranyi suggested a way to do this for this particular case. Ian Dodd suggested changing this to 50 Ohms. Proposal is to change this from 1000 Ohms to 50 Ohms. This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting. It is classified as ANNOYING and LOW. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR Not Discussed. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Arpad Muranyi described the current description of the BIRD. He would like to extend the BIRD to include voltage dependency of C_comp. I.e. a Voltage vs. Capacitance table rather than a single value. Milt Schwartz asked how this data could be generated. Arpad described how it could be measured. His method is outlined in the IBIS tutorial that he taught. The tutorial is uploaded on the IBIS web site. Arpad also mentioned that you could have different values for C_comp when the buffer is driving or receiving. Arpad will update the BIRD and it will be discussed at the next meeting. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not discussed. NEW TECHNOLOGIES Not discussed. IBIS4 Arpad asked whether we should focus on IBIS4 or concentrate on IBISX. Ian Dodd asked what was in IBIS4. E.g. what BIRDs, bugs and features are part of it. Also why is it version 4, rather than 3.3. Bob Ross will provide the feature list and post it on the reflector. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, July 21, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================