Date: 8/15/00 SUBJECT: 8/11/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella), Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat, John Angulo*, Al Davis*, Lynne Green* IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian, Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Brocade Communications Robert Badal ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Micorelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode August 25, 2000 (916) 356-9200 4-347958 9918979 September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross announced that Robinson-Nugent a new official IBIS Member joining several other companies involved in developing connectors. Bob also expects another semiconductor vendor to join shortly. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The July 21, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported that Roy Leventhal submitted some documents by from 3Com related to IBIS Models and signal integrity. These have been uploaded in the training directory under the subdirectory 3com-docs: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/3com-docs/ Roy added that a readme file still needs to be generated to clarify the file contents. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq has provided some Roster and FAQ updates. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Mike LaBonte is planning to update the IBIS Model page with some new model links shortly. Part of the process is to recheck the links. Bob Ross reported some new links containing IBIS models: Dallas Semiconductor: http://www.dalsemi.com/products/telecom/designtools.html Fujitsu (split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation): http://www.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/Products/Device/ CATALOG/AD05/IBIS/index_e.html Hitachi Standard Logic and Memory models (split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation): http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/logic/ simulation/logic_simulatee.htm http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/memory/ simulation/memory_simulatee.html Integrated Circuit Systems (ICS): http://www.icst.com/products/ (IBIS Files link and product links) Lattice Semiconductor (need to register): http://www.latticesemi.com/whatsnew/ (for IBIS Model additions to site) Level One Communications (part of Intel) http://www.level1.com/product/ibis.html Mitel Semiconductor (Follow Design Support, Support Data, Download Type: IBIS Models (Link Broken): http://www.mitelsemi.com/index.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming reported that she is trying to meet with the internal EIA contact on issues. Bob Ross stated that we will probably still need to help draft some header information. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross stated that he is waiting for some updated information that he can upload or distribute. - JEDEC JC-16 - Bob Ross commented that the next IBIS Summit meeting will conflict with a JEDEC meeting held elsewhere. PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross discussed the pending IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Thursday, September 14, 2000 in Worcester, Massachusetts and held along with the PCB East Conference 2000. The IBIS meeting will be at the Crowne Plaza hotel, a few blocks from the PCB East Conference. Bob reported that Mentor Graphics is joining NESA, Cadence and HyperLynx as co-sponsors. We may need one or two more sponsors. Bob still needs to contact Kathy Breda on this and other local arrangements. The first announcement sent out. Bob plans to have another announcement issued next week. Bob discussed further agenda plans. We plan to devote blocks of time to the Connector Model Specification and to IBIS Futures. The Connector Working Group plans to have some presentations. Mike LaBonte commented that the IBIS Futures group will also have some information. Arpad Muranyi also expects a Code Based Modeling presentation. Bob noted that one presentation is already scheduled: Roy Leventhal, 3com, - "IBIS and SI at 3com" (Presented by Mike LaBonte, Cadence) DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross review the planning done to date on the IBIS Summit Meeting held with DesignCon 2001 in San Jose, California. DesignCon 2001 is scheduled from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. The IBIS Summit Meeting is currently scheduled on Monday, January 29, 2001. Bob commented that he received a revised agreement to serve again as Associate Sponsor of DesignCon that appears to meet our expectations. We do expect to have one of the larger rooms. Milt Schwartz will be handling the signups and the local logistics. Milt also confirmed that National Semiconductor will again host the lunch. Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda will provide the backdrop for the booth. Bob expects that Jon Powell, who has many of the velco backed 8-1/2 by 11 inch member company logos will be asking for updates and logos from member companies which have already provided them. These will be put on the backdrop. So far only a passive display with some EIA/IBIS handout information is planned. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that another Texas Instruments model has been sent out for review. The model was generated based on some new IBIS model development software. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Bob Ross stated that the Connector Working Group continues to be active and to be making progress. Two meetings were held on July 25, 2000 and August 8, 2000. It will continue to meet on a bi-weekly basis every Tuesday. A short term goal is to have a document available by the IBIS Summit Meeting in September for IBIS Open Forum Review. The current Working Group draft has about 45 pages, and we are still working on internal technical details to assure internal syntax and technical consistency in order to stabilize the syntax. Some Swath matrix clarification and expansion details are now added. Ian Dodd commented on the value of the technical improvements. Bob stated that some of the technical details concerning the Swath matrix will probably be discussed at the September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Mike LaBonte reported on IBIS Future Working Group meeting progress. Meetings have been held on a bi-weekly basis on July 25, 2000 and August 8, 2000. The Working Group will now be conducting meetings on a weekly basis every Tuesday. The main topic of discussion is to continue reviewing the contents of the macro language proposal authored by Al Davis. This is also referred to as IBIS-X. The overall running thread is: how advanced should this be? Should it be flexible enough to cover all of the needs that we can foresee? A general discussion followed. Arpad Muranyi commented that even Spice is not flexible enough. A procedural language that supports equations and elements as a function of a number of parameters might be needed. On the other hand, a less advanced extension would take less time for EDA simulator vendors to implement. Lynne Green suggested a one year and three year goal. Al Davis commented that a shorter term, simpler solution could still be done in a manner that would support the longer term, more complicated extensions. He feels that we need to do the simple stuff first and not hold up IBIS-X. Arpad is leaning toward the advanced side to deal with some new technologies. Arpad elaborated that even in Spice, new features of the MOSFET model need to be hand coded. A code based Spice model that uses equations would get around this problem. The current IBIS-X proposals are similar to this. The extensions needs to include integration and differentiation along with addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication. A presentation will be given at the IBIS Summit Meeting on this subject. John Angulo commented that an application programmable interface would be needed for code based models. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross reported that he still needs to check on on the status of the BUG fixes since several new BUGs were sent to Atul Agarwal. - BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed Bob commented that we are still waiting for any proposed wording changes to the Warning message per the AR. Bob will follow up on this with Matthew Flora. AR - Matthew Flora to propose revised wording for the BUG42 Warning message. - BUG46 - Warning Message Missed for Typ Outside of Min and Max Bob Ross introduced BUG46 that was submitted by Matthew Flora. Matthew normally submits bugs and often locates where the problem exists in the source code. The sample in BUG46 showed where the L_pkg typical value was smaller than the min value and larger than the max value. That also made the max value smaller than the min value. No Warning was issued. Michael Cohen questioned whether I-V tables were checked. That would be a problem since max points may not always be greater than typ or min points. Bob commented that BUG46 tests only apply to discrete L, R, and C elements that should be entered by magnitude. Someone commented that no Warning message should be issued if the min or max values are equal to the typ values. There was some discussion on the abundance of Warning messages. While all Warning messages need to be checked, too many will reduce the confidence of valid IBIS models. Bob classified BUG46 as an Enhancement, Low and Open. We will decide at the next meeting whether or not to have it fixed. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODEL SELECTOR Bob Ross opened the discussion on BIRD64.1 by noting that this topic had been introduced last year. There is some discussion in the November 19, 1999 IBIS Minutes in which several options were discussed. Arpad Muranyi, who authored BIRD64.1 stated that different package models could be selected by loading different [Component] models. So technically BIRD64.1 was not needed. Michael Cohen expressed the emerging need to have package model corner choices for the same [Component] so that the EDA simulation tool could do the selection. Loading a new [Component] or using other methods (such as scripts) is inefficient and difficult to automate. Michael stated that the package model typ, min, and max choices could correspond to length tolerances. Michael proposed other nomenclature such as typ, slow, fast. Arpad stated that even and odd mode package models are issued to give uncoupled equivalents for the range of coupling interactions. This also gives a range of values similar to length tolerances. So other nomenclature may not apply. Bob noted that the main intent is to document tolerances on the package model paths, not different package options. Michael commented that the current BIRD64.1 covered what he needed. Bob noted that the ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION and ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION sections gives some more background. There are some interactions with other IBIS rules that prevent the [Package Model Selector] to be similar to the [Model Selector]. One problem is that package model names may have spaces. BIRD64.1 uses a comment character to note the description of each package model. However, EDA tools usually do not display comment information. In order to promote reflector discussion and final resolution of these issues, Bob is planning to have a vote on BIRD64.1 at the next (August 25, 2000) meeting. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross noted that BIRD65 had been authored by Arpad Muranyi and also had been discussed in the November 19, 1999 IBIS Minutes. Arpad noted that portions of C_comp could be attached to up to four supplies (power clamp reference, ground clamp reference, pullup reference, and pulldown reference). Bob noted that BIRD65 uses actual capacitance values rather than percentages. Arpad stated that the reason for splitting up C_comp was to get better accuracy for ground and power bounce simulations and simultaneous switching output simulations. Bob noted that Arpad was planning to issue a BIRD65.1 that included documenting the four capacitances as a function of voltage. While some people would favor doing this, Bob felt that we should not include such tables in IBIS Version 4.0 because of the added complication and because of some undefined interactions with other keywords which need to be considered. For example, the interactions of the capacitance tables and the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables need to be considered within the framework of existing EDA tool simulation algorithms. Details of how typ, min, and max columns C_comp columns need to be addressed. Al Davis stated that capacitance as a function of voltage can be easily handled with the IBIS-X macro language. So Bob suggested that we do not include C_comp as a function of voltage for BIRD65. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not discussed. 100 POINTS ISSUE Earlier in the meeting Bob Ross commented that some IBIS Version 4.0 BIRDs need to be issued. These include one to deal with Simultaneous Switching Output (SSO) per the work by Dr. Bernhard Unger, and also one on increasing the number of points. Time ran out before this topic could be discussed further. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, August 25, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD64.1 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================