Date: 10/6/00 SUBJECT: 10/6/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault, Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski, Elena Gutman, Shan Haq Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, [Kellee Crisafulli], (Now merged with Innoveda) Gene Garat, John Angulo*, [Al Davis], Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian, Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Son Huynh* Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda, Jinhua Chen Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cereva Networks Bob Haller ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew KAW Shinichi Maeda Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory RCI Chris Rode Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Micorelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 27, 2000 (916) 356-9200 8-160059 4748326 November 17, 2000 (916) 356-9200 8-160063 1329512 December 8, 2000 (916) 356-9200 To be issued December 22, 2000 (916) 356-9200 To be issued All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Innoveda and HyperLynx have merged. Per the precedent set by JEDEC, we will still treat them as independent companies with 2 votes for the remainder of 2000. They will continue to be listed separately. This honors the fact that HyperLynx (Pads Software) and Innoveda had purchased independent memberships for 2000 to the IBIS Open Forum. Randy Wolff and Son Huynh from Micron Technology both produce IBIS models for Micron and are interested in programs to produce more accurate models. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Protel has purchased the ibischk3 parser license. Bob also reported that Year 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum budgets are being proposed and reviewed by the IBIS Officers. We continue to have 34 members, but may get another one. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The August 25, 2000 and September 14, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without any changes. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming has fixed a bad default link on the ibis home page for http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ Mike LaBonte has checked it out and it appears to work correctly. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Mike Labonte updated the IBIS Model page and include a link to MMC Networks. IBIS Models are available by direct contact. One needs to contact: http://www.mmcnet.com/ to get user name and password for access. A customer supplied Mike with this link. Send reports of any new links to Mike. (His address is at the end of these Minutes.) Bob Ross reported an updated link from Lucent: http://www.lucent.com/micro/netcom/orca/s_resources/ibis.html and also some example models from UTMC Microelectronics Systems http://www.utmc.com/products/80196_examples.html OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Bob Ross will work with Stephen Peters and Cecilia Fleming to help draft header information based on some updated requirements from IEC. Others are welcome to help. The IBIS officers will probably help review the information. Bob noted that we need to supply (1) a precise scope, (2) normative references, if any, (3) an Introduction covering background and future activities, and (4) and an introductory note on the cover of the FDIS simply stating that IBIS Version 2.1 is out of date and is being replaced by IBIS Version 3.2. AR - Bob Ross and Stephen Peters supply the required information to Cecilia Fleming by October 13, 2000. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross had no report and restated that he is waiting for some updated information that he can upload or distribute. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - D.C. Sessions invites IBIS members to participate at the next JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings December 6-7, 2000 in Kona, Hawaii. Contact D.C. if you are interested for a Chairman's invitation at his ibis e-mail account: ibis@lumbercartel.com PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING REVIEW Bob Ross asked for comments on the recent IBIS Summit Meeting held on September 14, 2000 in Worcester, Massachusetts at the same time as the PCB Conference East. Stephen Peters felt it was a good meeting. Bob commented that we had more coverage of future topics (Connectors, IBIS Futures) than in the past, but we also had a user's perspective and a I/O Buffer Accuracy Report sample. Mike LaBonte commented that he did not sufficiently raise an issue regarding different levels of accuracy needed for different types of analysis (timing, cross-talk, etc.) that was within Roy Leventhal's presentation. This discussion could take place on the IBIS reflectors. Bob Ross reported the invoices have been sent to the four co-sponsors: Cadence, HyperLynx (now Innoveda), Mentor Graphics and North East Systems Associates (NESA). The meeting documents and presentations are now uploaded at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/sep00/ Roy indicated that he will supply an updated version with notes. Greg Edlund supplied an I/O Buffer Accuracy report sample (from which the presentation slides were taken). Greg plans to also supply a C utility for uploading to correlations as soon as he can take out some proprietary code. Bob expects to hold an IBIS Summit Meeting next year and will start setting the date and location as soon as he finds out the PCB Conference East details for next year. FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING The next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2000 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2000). Bob Ross noted that National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch. Milt Swartz will continue to assist in the arrangements of this meeting. DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001. The early planning has been done. We also plan to have a passive IBIS booth on the exhibit floor for literature and interaction. More activity will occur in several months. Bob is also starting to make meeting arrangements for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held March, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. Bob believes that we will have co-sponsorship again from Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases) and invites other co-sponsors as well. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo reported that he has just received a new IBIS model for the committee to review. John also indicated that as a result of the recent merger, Innoveda now has three reviewers. Mentor and Cadence have the other reviewers. He needs some reviewers from other EDA companies. Bob Ross will work off-line to give him some possible contacts. After some discussion, we felt that it was all right for Innoveda to have several reviewers (representing Innoveda and the former HyperLynx products). The reviewers are chosen only from EDA tool vendors so that the models are reviewed and tested in a cross-section of EDA tools by people who will work with the latest releases and understand the tool issues that need to be considered. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Bob Ross reported that a Connector Working Group meeting was held on September 5, 2000 prepare for the IBIS Summit Meeting on September 14, 2000. No subsequent meeting was held. However the next meetings are planned on October 10 and October 17, 2000. Kellee Crisafulli will not be able to participate since he has left HyperLynx (Innoveda) and moved on to a non-EDA industrial position. We will miss his driving force and contributions, but the remaining members will try to finalize the document. Ian Dodd mentioned that there has not been much committee discussion on the pseudo-languages for automapping (Swath Matrix expansion). That should be part of the discussion for the next meeting. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Bob Ross stated that an IBIS Futures Working Group meeting was held on September 5, 2000 to prepare for the September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting. Another meeting is scheduled on October 10, 2000. Mike LaBonte reported on the October 3, 2000 meeting. There was not much progress to report. Arpad Muranyi is on sabbatical. Al Davis is prototyping the macro language software. We did discuss issuing a BNF format. Mike also mentioned an idea of working with the Connector Specification Working Group when we consider package and internal die interconnection issues. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross reported on the ibischk3 parser development status based on a recent e-mail from Atul Agarwal. He has not done any work since finishing several BUGs several months ago. When he returns from a business trip in late October 2000, he will give an estimate on how long it will take to do the remaining BUGs. The currently outstanding BUGs are BUG36 - BUG46. One or two corrections are needed to bring ibischk3 in compliance with the the current Specification. - BUG47 - Change Waveform Mismatch Warning to Error and Warning Mike LaBonte introduced BUG47. Currently ibischk3 issues a Warning message when the V-T waveform table end points values deviate from the calculated end point values based on the I-V tables by more than 2% of the calculated range of DC end points. BUG47 keeps this check, but adds and Error message if the end point mismatch exceeds 10% (the Warning message is then not issued.) Bob Ross stated that we had already discussed this in the August 25, 2000 meeting. The value 10% was regarded as a reasonable value showing lack of correlation to justify issuing an Error versus a Warning message. Ian Dodd raised an issue that some measured lack of correlation may be based on DC measurements being done using DC methodology rather than using AC methods at the same clock frequency as the V-T measurements (such as would be caused by different internal thermal effect). This sparked some discussion. The main point, however, remains that the specification expects that the V-T tables do correlate with the I-V data. So this test remains valid. Bob classified BUG47 as Enhancement, Low and Open. Mike stated that he would also have suggested the same classification for BUG47. Bob planned to forward BUG47 to Atul for fixing. Matthew Flora commented that V-T and I-V mismatch was one of the major problems with IBIS models that are being reviewed. He suggested more descriptive Warning and Error messages because many people do not understand what this message implies. Matthew also suggested that the actual percentage mismatch be reported when this message is issued. Bob expanded that we would need two reported actual percentages for each Error or Warning for the starting voltage and ending voltage. We discussed various aspects of this issue. Bob stated that we need to agree on the amended message warnings before releasing BUG47 to Atul. Matthew and Mike should work together on this. We will plan to review the revised wording at the next IBIS meeting. AR - Matthew Flora work with Mike LaBonte to revise the message report text of BUG47. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODEL SELECTOR Bob Ross introduced BIRD64.1. It was originally issued by Arpad Muranyi in October and November 1999 and has been discussed in the past. At the August 27, 2000 meeting we ran out of time before considering it for a vote. Bob briefly outlined that BIRD64.1 introduced the [Package Model Selector] keyword under which a number of possible package names were listed. Each of these could be selected through an EDA tool interface or through scripts or programs. The main motivation for BIRD64.1 was to allow selection of package options (particularly tolerances) automatically. Currently, just loading replacement IBIS models with new packages is not considered a satisfactory option. Bob emphasized that the major reason for BIRD64.1 was to test electrical variations of package models. For example, even mode and odd mode package models give some corner cases for considering common mode and differential coupling situations and their simplified electrical characteristics. Some package tolerances also can be included. Other options were listed: Do nothing - rely on just loading in replacement models Adopt BIRD64.1 as written Adopt a convention closer to the [Model Selector] conventions (this includes two parameters and some global scoping and different syntax) Expand the [Package Model] keyword to have typ-min-max columns Bob commented that some of the other options would be difficult to implement because of some current IBIS syntax conventions. For example, model names for [Model Selector] are single-words with a maximum of 20 characters. Model names for [Define Package Model] can be multi-word names with a maximum of 40 characters. A limitation on BIRD64.1 as written is that the list of package model names do not have any electrical information concerning typ-min-max. The list can be in any order and for any number of corners. The user would have to know beforehand the ordering convention and content for each [Package Model Selector] list and program the automated application accordingly. If a typ-min-max ordering were given by another alternative above, then we would always require the typ column to comply with existing IBIS conventions for other keywords. Bob then asked for other comments prior to calling for a vote. Mike LaBonte stated BIRD64.1 did not declare the scoping requirements. It is not stated where the [Package Model Selector] can appear in an IBIS file, and to which [Component] it applies. After looking at BIRD64.1, Bob agreed with the comment. Bob indicated that he assumed that unlike [Model Selector], [Package Model Selector] was scoped with [Component] in a manner similar to [Package Model]. Bob also indicated that this change contains enough technical text to require releasing an updated BIRD64.2 before voting for approval. Roy Leventhal commented that [Package Model Selector] was not intended to support different packages. The example in BIRD64.1 shows both a set of choices for package tolerances (odd mode, even mode) and also a choice for two packages (plastic and ceramic). We did not elaborate on the choice for different packages. However one implication is that we cannot use the [Package Model Selector] to support packages with different pin numbers. Different part numbers should be used in this case consistent with different part naming conventions. Different packages with the same pin number would be permitted, but the main reason for the [Package Model Selector] keyword is to support the need for issuing tolerance variations on package models and to support automated analysis using such models. John Angulo asked whether further reflector discussion was needed because BIRD64.1 was not finalized. Bob answered yes. Roy called for a vote on whether BIRD64.1 should be rejected at this time (a possible option which would eliminate the need for any further work) - NO, or whether BIRD64.1 should be held open for further processing - YES. The vote was a unanimously YES that we should continue processing BIRD64.1. (This was NOT a vote to approve BIRD64.1.) Bob stated that we need to make the changes to BIRD64.1 and issue BIRD64.2 so we can review and vote on the actual text of the added comments. AR - The IBIS Committee (Arpad Muranyi is on sabbatical and no one else was specifically tasked to do this) to issue BIRD64.2 to address Mike LaBonte's scoping comments and to add Roy Leventhal's comments that [Package Model Selector] is not intended to be used for just package selections. 100 POINTS ISSUE Bob Ross asked Ian Dodd to issue a BIRD on this subject as an AR. AR - Ian Dodd issue a BIRD on allowing 1000 point Waveform tables. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Not discussed. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not discussed. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, October 27, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD64.2 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================