Date: 11/21/00 SUBJECT: 11/17/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, [Todd Westerhoff], Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault, Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski, Elena Gutman, Shan Haq Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora, [Kellee Crisafulli], (Now merged with Innoveda) Gene Garat, John Angulo*, [Al Davis], Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, [Jun Tian], Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang*, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Son Huynh, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda, Jinhua Chen Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin*, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Cereva Networks Bob Haller ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew KAW Shinichi Maeda Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory RCI Chris Rode Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Microelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode December 8, 2000 (916) 356-9200 8-177128 7335175 December 22, 2000 (916) 356-9200 8-177130 3124243 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Michael Mirmak joined from Intel. Michael has been involved in modeling for about four years and works closely with Arpad Muranyi. Yong Phan of Micron Technology is a new member of a signal integrity group. He has previously done memory design. Yong's interest in IBIS is related to signal integrity issues. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Philips Semiconductor has purchased an ibischk3 parser source code license. Cecilia Fleming reported that she will be sending out invoices for IBIS Open Forum Year 2001 membership in the beginning of December 2000 so that members can choose to use the remainder of the 2000 budget, if needed. Guy de Burgh has some updated contact information. Bob asked Guy to send to Cecilia his current list. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The October 27, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved with the following changes: Greg Ledenbach's position was changed from Secretary to International Secretary of IEC TC93. The EIA IBIS Open Forum official web site at the end of the minutes needs .org added. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq got several responses regarding updating the Roster. Bob Ross reported that two more academic papers now exist at the link: http://www.eln.polito.it/Ricerca/emc/papers.html The first one is: I.S.Stievano, I.A.Maio, "Behavioral Models of Digital IC Ports from Measured Transient Waveforms," Proceedings of the 9th Topical Meeting on Electrical Performance of Electric Packaging (EPEP2000), Scottsdale-Phoenix, Arizona, October 2000. The second is: F.G.Canavero, I.A.Maio, I.S.Stievano, "Black-box Identification of Digital Devices for Radiation Prediction," Proceedings of the 4th European Symposium on Electromagnetic Compatibility, Brugge Belgium, September 2000. Presentations are given for both papers. Both of these papers along with another previously reported paper mention IBIS. However they suggest a more general behavioral black-box approach. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob found some more Motorola links for clock drivers, http://www.mot-sps.com/clocks/dtools/designtools.html Mike LaBonte reported that he has updated the Models link of the IBIS Home page. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that the header information reported previously has been forwarded to IEC. She will get some further status from Greg Ledenbach, International Secretary of IEC TC-93. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Jean-Claude Perrin stated that the proposed new document has been approved by IEC TC93 as a new CDV. Upon approval, the document will be issued as a public report for other committees including the IBIS Open Forum to consider. Jean-Claude plans to present the document at the European IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled in March 2001. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross stated, as previously reported, that D.C. Sessions invites IBIS members to participate at the next JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings December 6-7, 2000 in Kona, Hawaii. Contact D.C. if you are interested for a Chairman's invitation. Mike LaBonte plans to attend. FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross stated that the next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2000 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2000). Bob Ross noted that National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch. Milt Schwartz is planning for 50 lunches. Milt commented later that all the arrangements have been made. DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001. We also plan to have a passive IBIS booth on the exhibit floor for literature and interaction. Bob stated that he expects to get the first notice out in early December. Bob also stated that early plans have been made for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. Bob indicated that four companies are now planning to co-sponsor the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases). Information on these events exists at the Upcoming Events Links of the IBIS Home Page. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo reported no further activity on a previously reported model. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Ian Dodd reported that the Connector Working group is developing proposals to automatically name pins. It is meeting weekly. More members are welcome. Bob Ross noted that Meetings were held October 31, November 9 and November 14, 2000 and the next one is scheduled November 21, 2000. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Mike LaBonte reported good progress on the last meeting held November 7, 2000, which now meets about every two weeks. Stephen Peters has volunteered to develop a top-level specification document. The Working Group has been focused on the internal details of the macro language and needs a more general document. Mike also stated that new members are welcome, particularly anyone interested in writing documents. The next meeting is scheduled for November 21, 2000. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross gave the current status of the ibischk3 bug fixes being done by Atul Agarwal. BUGs 36 - 46 have been fixed. BUG34 is still pending along with final resolution of BUG47. Bob indicated that Atul had questioned what was intended regarding BUG46. Specifically, it stated that certain min-typ-max values should be entered so that the min values are less than or equal to the typ value, and the max value is greater or equal to the typ value. An older fix for BUG19 just reported if the typ value was outside of the min-max range and did not test if whether the min column was numerically smaller than the max column. It is sometimes not clear when to apply the more stringent test. For example, the voltage range and voltage reference values could have negative values with the max voltage larger in magnitude, but more negative than the other voltages. The resolution was to apply BUG46 to just the [Package] entries L_pkg, R_pkg, and C_pkg. That was the concern that caused BIRD46 to be initiated. - BUG47 - Change Waveform Mismatch Warning to Error and Warning Bob introduced BUG47 by noting the updates by Matthew Flora per the AR of the October 27, 2000 meeting. The updates clarified that proposed message applied for both Error and Warning messages. Also the message will state V_fixture_min and V_fixture_max if these values are selected instead of V_fixture for the end point test between V-T data and V-I data. The group approved BUG47 and scheduling to fix it in a future ibischk3 release. - BUG48 - Warning Message for Vref, Cref, Rref, Vmeas in Wrong Models Bob introduced BUG48 authored by Michael Mirmak. There are two problems. No Warning is issued when Vmeas, Vref, Cref, and Rref are included in models such as Input or Terminator models which cannot be outputs. Also, a misleading Warning is issued based on the output not passing through the Vmeas thresholds for Input models. Such a Warning is inappropriate because it implies configuring the model as an output. Michael added that BUG48 is similar to the test in BUG42 which issues warnings when input thresholds exist on models without any input mode. After some discussion, BUG48 was classified as ANNOYING (because of the inappropriate Warning), LOW, and OPEN. It will be scheduled to be fixed in a future ibischk3 release. - BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels Michael introduced BUG49 which deals with unreferenced or dangling models within IBIS files. Michael indicated that an unreferenced model may be produced by a model developer putting in a similar, but wrong name somewhere else. There is no Warning for such a mistake. Ian Dodd stated that for FPGA models, the developer might want to list a set of models that are available. In this case another Warning message would just add to the clutter of Warning messages that a user needs to go through to find the significant messages. The model developer might find some messages useful, but the model user might want a more limited set. Ian suggested that we might want to consider an optional command line to specify what messages to issue. Bob Ross objected to this approach because all messages would have to be reviewed. Michael suggested that Submodels might be treated differently than models. Submodels are not used for FPGAs. Someone mentioned that the message did not discuss models issued by the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword. Bob stated that we need more time to consider BUG49. Comments can be made on the IBIS reflector. BUG49 was classified as ENHANCEMENT, LOW, and OPEN. More discussion is planned at the next meeting to decide on how to resolve BUG49. - BUG50 - Error Message for Out of Order C_comp Values Michael introduced BUG50 to report an Error if the C_comp values were not positioned by value appropriately in min, typ, and max columns. Michael noted that the positioning of the values was specified in IBIS in the Notes on Data Derivation Section. Bob suggested a Warning message be issued since there might be some legacy models with incorrectly positioned values. Michael pointed out that at least one EDA tool issued an Error if the C_comp values were not in the correct positions. Michael encountered this problem while working with real models. Roy Leventhal added that IBIS model development discipline needs to be enforced. Bob agreed to accept BUG50 issuing an Error message. BUG50 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN. After future discussion, the group approved scheduling BUG50 to be fixed in a future ibischk3 release. Bob stated that the ibischk3 release process involves checking the test cases and building executables for several operating systems. Matthew normally builds the Windows executable. Syed Huq normally builds the Linux executables. Guy de Burgh will build the remaining executables for various Unix operation systems (a job Chris Rokusek has done in the past). Bob would like a release this year so that one or two important fixes that make ibischk3 consistent with the IBIS Specification are distributed. Based on the discussion Bob will communicate with Atul regarding what is needed for a quick release of ibischk3. Bob will ask if BUG47 and BUG34 can be included in the current release in a timely manner. Otherwise the fixes to BUG34 and possibly BUG47 will be deferred. The additional BUGs after BUG47 will be not be included in the current release. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Bob Ross stated that the committee resolution for the BIRDs could be Yes, No, Abstain, or Defer. Unlike some administrative decisions, the IBIS Open Forum would like to achieve at least nearly unanimous consensus on technical issues rather than rely on legal, majority approval. A BIRD approval is just the first step. The actual document needs to be approved by at least an 80 percent vote to show industry support and consensus. So one can vote to Defer in order to spend more time on details to avoid future issues. Bob briefly introduced BIRD61.1. It was originally introduced in August 1999. BIRD61.1 introduces for Input models the keyword [Receiver Delay] and provides subparameters Start_point, End_point, and Slope to describe input test waveforms. Tables of delays in terms of these parameters are proposed and the EDA tools are supposed to build an internal models. These models would capture the delay variations seen by the actual input signal. Stephen Peters, a co-author, stated that BIRD61.1 seems to lack support. Some people felt that such variations would be better handled in the IBIS-X approach which actually specifies the building an internal model. BIRD61.1 just gives the external, test information from a black-box point of view. So the committee did not make any progress with BIRD61.1. Ian Dodd and Bob both indicated that they did not know how to use the information given in BIRD61.1 to create models. Bob added that it had not been prototyped as suggested. Bob did not even know how much data is needed. Bob also mentioned that Al Davis was going to contact D.C. Sessions to find out more details, but Bob thought the intent was related to how the functions might be implemented in IBIS-X. Bob called for a vote. BIRD61.1 was rejected by a 1 YES (by mail), 7 NO votes. BIRD64.3 - ALTERNATE PACKAGE MODELS Mike LaBonte introduced BIRD64.3 by indicating that the functional intent of BIRD64.3 for different package models was similar to the [Model Selector] for models. However, there were some differences. Mike issued BIRD64.3 to deal with some discussion and concerns expressed at the October 27, 2000 meeting and some IBIS reflector discussions. Bob Ross stressed that the functional details had not changed. The current changes were really based on syntax preferences and conventions. Bob still had a few details to consider. We have decided not to follow the same conventions as in [Model Specification] and have even made changes to reinforce the differences. Mike indicated that the [Model Selector] uses the first model as the default, whereas in [Alternate Package Models] the default package model is still given by [Package Model] keyword. In response to a question, Bob stated that we could approve BIRDs with small, minor changes agreed upon at the IBIS meeting. We would issue the new BIRD with minor revisions after the meeting. However, if the changes were substantial and changed the functionality, a new BIRD would need to be issued and remain stable for two weeks before voting to provide the opportunity for adequate review. Roy Leventhal asked if BIRD64.3 could handle devices with package variations based on thermal effects. Mike stated that package model list could be based on any effects. Bob wanted "may" to be changed to "shall" in two locations to conform to some grammatical guidelines for standards. "May" indicates permission or choice. Bob questioned the meaning that [Alternate Package Models] follow [Package Model]. Does this mean somewhere after or immediately after. While the [Alternate Package Models] would normally be positioned immediately after the [Package Model] keyword, there is no technical reason to restrict its location under [Component]. Most keywords do not have a location restriction. Mike LaBonte did not see any reason to restrict the location. So the Usage rules sentence should be changed to remove the "follows" restrictions. The only restriction remains that [Package Model] needs to exist for [Alternate Package Models] to be syntactically correct. Bob also wanted a clarification note that the package model named in [Package Model] can be repeated in the list of models under [Alternate Package Models]. Bob felt that a user might change the default, but would not also want to remove or add an entry into the [Alternate Package Models] list. Mike agreed to this addition. Finally, Bob stated he preferred a different name such as [Additional Package Models] or [Package Model List]. No one supported this at this time, so Bob will accept the existing [Alternate Package Models] name. Because we were running out of time, Bob deferred having a quick vote (and possibly being cut off at mid-vote. This will give an opportunity to issue BIRD64.4 with the editorial changes. The vote on BIRD64.4 is scheduled for the next meeting. AR - Bob Ross work with Mike LaBonte to issue BIRD64.4 with the editorial changes agreed upon at this meeting. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Not discussed. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Scheduled for a vote, but not discussed. BIRD67.1 - INCREASE V-T TABLE 100 POINT LIMIT Scheduled for a vote, but not discussed. BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED Not discussed. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 8, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD64.4, BIRD66, and BIRD67.1 are scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================