Date: 12/11/00 SUBJECT: 12/8/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cadence Design [Mike LaBonte], [Todd Westerhoff], Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault, Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski, Elena Gutman, Shan Haq Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, [Kellee Crisafulli], (Now merged with Innoveda) Gene Garat, John Angulo, [Al Davis], Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund*, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, [Jun Tian], Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Son Huynh, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda, Jinhua Chen Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Cereva Networks Bob Haller ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew KAW Shinichi Maeda Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory RCI Chris Rode Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Microelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode January 5, 2001 (916) 356-9200 3-454694 8973669 January 29, 2001 - IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Ross noted that Ian Dodd is now the primary representative for Cadence since Mike LaBonte has changed jobs. Larry Barnes joined for the first time this year from LSI Logic. He had previously been involved in IBIS from Symbios prior to being acquired by LSI Logic. Larry's interest in IBIS is related to some ANSI SCSI-3 committee work and some emerging related issues. This will be discussed later in the meeting. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming reported that 33 invoices for 2001 have been sent out to the member companies. We are still trying to find a new representative for one company. In 2001 HyperLynx will not invoiced since they are now merged with Innoveda. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The November 17, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None (some announcement items will be new agenda items discussed elsewhere). PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming reported that she received and installed web updates from Syed Huq for Poster, Upcoming Events, and Free Utilities changes. One company logo was removed form the Poster page because of a company merger making the old logo invalid. Bob Ross mentioned that the HyperLynx logo might also be removed per the instructions to Syed from Guy de Burgh of Innoveda. Bob also reported that the article "Optimize Power Distribution Analysis in High-Speed Systems Designs" by Todd Westerhoff in the November 20, 2000 issue of Electronic Design mentions IBIS modeling. The article can also be found under the magazine link: http://www.elecdesign.com/ NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that the Fujitsu flash memory IBIS model link has changed: http://edevice.fujitsu.com/fj/CATALOG/AD05/IBIS/index_e.html Also, Intel has released the Pentium(R) 4 Processor models under: http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/devtools/ OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Michael Mirmak - BUG51 - Error Message Needed for Missing [Submodel] Michael Mirmak - BUG52 - IBISCHK3 Hangs for [Add Submodel] Instead of [Submodel] Greg Edlund - New Accuracy figure of merit C code (New Administrative Issues) Bob Ross - Upcoming vacations and next meeting (New Administrative Issues) Bob Ross - IBIS Librarian (New Administrative Issues) Roy Leventhal - Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet (Part of Future Summit Planning) Larry Barnes - SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling (Part of Future Summit Planning) INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming had no further report, but she will follow up on the status by e-mail. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross commented that Jean-Claude Perrin had gave us status at the November 17, 2000 meeting. Bob had no further report. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross noted that the JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 are meeting December 6-7, 2000 in Kona, Hawaii. We should find out more at the next meeting. Cecilia Fleming offered to send the JEDEC minutes to Bob to keep him informed. FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING (Including some new agenda items) Bob Ross stated again the basic information that the next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2001 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2000). National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch. Milt Schwartz is planning for 50 lunches. DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001. Bob noted that the first announcement has been sent out. Milt reported that he has received six signups already. Bob estimated over 10 signups so far and will get more input from Milt offline. We have been assigned Booth #861. Guy de Burgh reported receiving the show manual from Bob, and he and Jon Powell will be responsible for setting up the booth. Bob asked Guy to work with Jon to request the company logo information again for the Booth backdrop. Bob discussed the meeting agenda to date. Some topics were added. The titles listed may change. "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual "Connector Specification Discussion", Gus Panella, Molex "IBIS Futures", Stephen Peters, Intel Several New Agenda Items were discussed, and these relate to additional presentations: "Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet", Roy Leventhal, 3Com. Roy Leventhal stated that he has written a "paper" related to general modeling issues spanning Spice, matrix, and behavioral techniques. He has sent it out for some early private review. Eventually he would like it uploaded on a public site. Bob stated that it is more like a book with about 250 pages, nine sections and an appendix. Bob read the section titles to illustrate the broad coverage. Roy would introduce this paper at the IBIS Summit Meeting. "SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling" Larry Barnes, LSI Logic. Larry Barnes is involved with an ANSI T10 committee on Low Level Parallel Interfaces. He is serving as technical editor for subgroup and is using IBIS as part of the specification. The committee is concerned with SCSI buffers driving 12 foot cables. It defining a bit encoding technique for run length encoded based changes in signal amplitude. Larry wants to discuss issues on how to apply IBIS. The document is planned to be completed around March 2001. Bob stated that this could be of interest for existing IBIS and also for the future version of IBIS. Bob noted that we will have a full meeting. We probably will get a few more presentations related to Future IBIS issues. Bob also stated the early plans for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. Bob indicated that four companies are now planning to co-sponsor the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases). IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported for John Angulo who is on vacation that no models have been recently submitted or sent out. NEW ACCURACY FIGURE OF MERIT C CODE (New Agenda Item) Greg Edlund reported that the IBIS Home Page Accuracy Link now has a new C utility for calculating two existing figures of merit and also two new ones from waveform files. This utility is freeware and can be used and modified by anyone. Greg plans to send out a reflector note. Bob Ross indicated that there was also good documentation with it. VACATIONS AND NEXT MEETING (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross mentioned that several people will be out during the Christmas and New Years holidays. Bob Ross: December 11 - December 26 Jon Angulo: Returning December 13 Matthew Flora: December 18 - December 29 Guy de Burgh: December 24 - January 1 Stephen Peters: Possibly December 22 Based on this we agreed to move the December 22 meeting to January 5, 2001. We also had considered January 12, 2001, but will cancel that reservation. The IBIS Summit Meeting at DesignCon 2001 on January 29, 2001 will follow in just over three weeks. IBIS LIBRARIAN (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross indicated that Mike LaBonte has resigned the Librarian position as a result of accepting a new job. Bob has several potential candidates to replace Mike. They include Michael Cohen and Roy Leventhal. Anyone else who wants to be considered for this position should contact Bob. Bob plans that the IBIS Committee select or formally vote for someone at the next meeting on January 5, 2001. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Bob Ross reported that the Working Group has been meeting weekly on November 21, November 28, and December 5, 2000. The next meeting is scheduled on December 12, 2000. Ian Dodd reported that there has been progress in clarifying the matrix expansion discussion, and also there is a new, formal language for naming pins. Bob felt that we have agreed on most technical issues and are nearing completion and hopes to have a complete technical draft prior to the DesignCon IBIS Summit. The draft will probably not be as editorially clean as would like. However we want to make the technical content available as early as possible for review and plan to clean up the document while it is being reviewed. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Bob Ross noted that the Working Group met on November 21, November 28, and December 5, 2000. The next meeting is scheduled on December 19, 2000. Stephen Peters (who is taking over for Mike LaBonte) reported that the Working Group is producing a top level specification. There still needs to be work on a component section to deal with die interconnect and pin to buffer modeling. The macro language has been developed, but it needs to be more formally documented. Bob noted that we would like a very readable document that communicates the new features and shows how they relate to the existing IBIS Version 3.2 (for upward compatibility). Stephen would like the new Header section to be compatible with the Connector Specification Header. Since several members are in both Working Groups, the Header documents should be similar. BIRD64.4 - ALTERNATE PACKAGE MODELS Bob Ross introduced BIRD64.4 by indicating that it had been discussed at the November 17, 2000 meeting. We had agreed upon some "editorial" changes. It is permissible to make minor changes as long as they do not impact the basic functionality. We ran out of time before voting on BIRD64.3 with changes. So Mike LaBonte issued BIRD64.4 after the meeting with the editorial changes and complied with the AR at that meeting. Bob summarized the changes: Use "shall" instead of "may", remove part of one slightly ambiguous portion of a sentence that constrained where [Alternative Package Models] would be placed under the [Component] keyword, and add a sentence that any model listed by [Package Model] could be repeated in the [Alternative Package Models] list. Arpad Muranyi, a co-author, supported the changes. Bob stated that most of the recent concerns were related to editorial preferences and not technical issues. After no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD64.4 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Bob Ross introduced BIRD66 by noting that it had been originally introduced by Scott McMorrow in November 1999. Bob stated that the Vref subparameter would be added to the [Model Spec] lists to capture cases where Vref is different for min and max voltages. An example would be for PECL technology. Bob stated that there were cases where the timing test load would change with supply variations. However, there were other considerations that delayed immediate resolution. We thought that we might use BIRD66 to also consider possible Rref and Cref changes. We also might have added an series resistor to the timing test load such as used by some SSTL configurations. However, based upon D.C. Sessions recommendation, we were discouraged from adding this. Instead, JEDEC will try not to use the series resistor. Finally, there are some cases where the rising edge uses a different test load than the falling edge. Bob basically supported the notion that we should just consider Vref only as in BIRD66. We can issue other BIRDs if additional subparameters are requested. Bob also stated that there might be questions in how Rref would be used. Originally the timing test load was considered only for use with typical column information to get a common delay reference value. However, in practice, some models have been issued with timing test loads connected for minimum and maximum voltages corners. Bob supported adding the Vref subparameter and letting the EDA vendors use (or ignore) the information as appropriate. With no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD66 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. BIRD67.1 - INCREASE V-T TABLE 100 POINT LIMIT Bob Ross mentioned that issues regarding increasing the number of allowable data points in V-T had been discussed in previous meetings. We resolved to set the limit at 1000 (versus 1001). We also limited BIRD67.1 to V-T tables. A separate BIRD would need to be issued for V-I table limits. Finally, to resolve an ambiguity raised by Michael Cohen, we changed "points" to "rows" in BIRD67.1. This means that the 1000 point limit is on number of rows rather than the number of numerical entries. So NA entries in any column are included in the row count. Co-author Ian Dodd had no further comments. With no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD67.1 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. With the resolution of the above three BIRDs and also of a previous BIRD62.6, Bob plans to upload a new pending IBIS Version 4.0 work in progress document that includes the resolved BIRDs. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross stated that Arpad Muranyi originally issued BIRD65 in October 1999. Bob wants to move this toward resolution. BIRD65 describes splitting up C_comp into components attached to four different power rails. We had discussed aspects of BIRD65 previously and decided to use actual capacitance values rather than to use percentages. Bob suggested changing the subparameter names to better associate with the actual supply rails. BIRD65 uses: C_comp_pu, C_comp_pd, C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl. Bob proposed: C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, C_comp_gnd. We have chosen names in other cases such as the [Rpower] and [Rgnd] keywords to emphasize the association with the corresponding rail. Arpad stated that he had similar concerns and supported the changing the subparameter names. We discussed briefly that BIRD65 does state rules for when all of the new subparameters are needed. We need to review these rules. Also Bob commented that we need to look in the Notes on Data Derivation section to see if some changes need to be done there to reference the new subparameters. Bob asked Arpad to issue BIRD65.1 with the notation change and also with any added text needed for the Notes on Data Derivation section. AR - Arpad Muranyi issue BIRD65.1 with notation changes and possible Notes on Data Derivation section changes per the above discussion. Bob plans to schedule BIRD65.1 for a vote at the January 5, 2001 IBIS meeting. BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED Bob Ross noted that BIRD68, authored by Dave Lorang, was scheduled for discussion at the last meeting, but we ran out of time. Stephen Peters briefly stated that BIRD68 dealt with correlating to a common reference time the rising and falling edge waveforms. This is needed for capturing internal delays correctly for each edge and for meanful eye diagrams and intersymbol interference analysis. Milt Schwartz added later that this is necessary for differential drivers. Bob Ross added later that submodels and driver schedule models may require time correlation in certain cases. Stephen raised one concern. Do we add a positive indication such as a subparameter that the waveforms are correlated? This would provide a method to document correlation and be compatible with IBIS Version 3.2 models where such compatibility may not exist. Bob is leaning against this, but understands that there are concerns regarding providing such models in some special case measurement or simulation situations. Bob also was concerned with the specific language "input stimulus is assumed to have initiated at the logic transition". This could be interpreted as the time of actually triggering the transition - an undefined or hard to determine value. A better statement might refer to a common reference point for the input stimulus, such as the beginning of the input stimulus waveform for each edge. While there might be some slight error in this approach based on input signal amplitude or ramp rate, this approach would still be more consistent with actual waveform extraction based on simulation or measurement. More discussion is planned for the next meeting. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING (Including New Agenda Items) Bob Ross reported on the status of the ibischk3 parser. Atul Agarwal plans to provide a release around mid December 2000 that includes BUG34 and BUG47. At the November 17, 2000 meeting we planned to do these last two bug fixes if they could be done quickly. We are cutting the bug fixes off at BUG47 for this release in order to get some important corrections distributed. Matthew Flora commented that he is still receiving IBIS models with problems that would be exposed by the newer version of ibischk3. These include negative ramp rates (and Michael Cohen stated zero ramp rates). Based on vacation schedules, we expect the ibischk3 parser to be reviewed and released in January 2001. The review and release process involves checking the fixes, generating executables (Matthew Flora for Windows, Syed Huq for Linux and Guy de Burgh for the other operating systems). - BUG51 - Error Message Needed for Missing [Submodel] (New Item) Michael Mirmak introduced BUG51. The ibischk3 parser correctly issues an Error when a referenced Submodel is not defined for most cases. However, BUG51 documents a failure where no Submodels are defined and no error is issued. BUG51 was classified as MODERATE, MEDIUM, OPEN, and planned to be fixed in a future release. - BUG52 - IBISCHK3 Hangs for [Add Submodel] Instead of [Submodel] (New Item) Michael Mirmak introduced BUG52. It is related to BUG51, but documents a situation where the keyword [Submodel] is incorrectly replaced by [Add Submodel]. In the reported test case, ibischk3 either hangs or crashes and does not complete the check. BUG52 was classified as SERIOUS, MEDIUM, OPEN, and planned to be fixed in a future release. - BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels Bob Ross commented that BUG49 was discussed at the November 17, 2000 meeting. Several points had been brought up. These related to whether warnings should be given for FPGAs where extra models might be added to the file, but not referenced. Another discussion related to differences between unreferenced submodels and models. Also models referenced by [Series Pin Mapping] needed to be included. Michael Mirmak had issued a revised BUG49 that addressed these comments. He also added that the revise BUG49 discussed issuing only one Warning message rather than multiple Warning messages for dangling Models, and Warnings for each dangling Submodel. This would limit the number of Warnings for FPGA files. As time was running out, Bob planned more discussion and final resolution at the January 5, 2001 meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, January 5, 2001 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD65.1 is scheduled for a vote. Also a vote on a new IBIS Librarian will be conducted. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Open Position WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================