Date: 1/9/01 SUBJECT: 1/5/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal* Agilent (Mark Chang) Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology (Raj Raghuram) Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Brocade Communications (Robert Badal) Cadence Design Ian Dodd* Cisco Systems (Syed Huq) Compaq (Peter LaFlamme) Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella) Fairchild Semiconductor (Craig Klem) IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang*, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics Bob Ross* Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi (Tam (Tom) Cao) Molex Incorporated (Gus Panella) Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell* North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG (Gerald Bannert) SiQual (Scott McMorrow) Texas Instruments (Thomas Fisher) Time Domain Analysis Systems (Dima Smolyansky Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) (Werner Rissiek) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: EIA Cecilia Fleming* Foundary Networks Bertram Chan* Independent, Consultant Al Davis* In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode January 29, 2001 - IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bertram Chan joined from Foundary Networks. Bertram described doing EMC and SI and timing analysis in recent designs. His interest in IBIS is in the quality of vendor supplied IBIS models. Bob Ross commented that this will be a topic at the next IBIS Summit Meeting. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming reported that she has received about 15 payments so far for the 33 invoices issued in December 2000 for 2001 membership. Many payments are telephoned in and made by credit card. The telephone number is on the invoice. Bob Ross stated that it is often administratively more efficient in many organizations. Bob is still seeking a representative for one company. He also noted that HyperLynx is now combined with Innoveda in the IBIS Participants list. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The December 8, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross stated that the December 8, 2000 uploaded Minutes document the IBIS meeting participation for 2000. The new list is started with these Minutes for 2001. All member companies are retained, but non-member companies are dropped. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Greg Edlund sent out the announcements of C code and of Accuracy Report under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/accuracy/ NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that some IBIS models exist from Fairchild Semiconductor for the EnSigna(TM) products at: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/designcenter/labs/ensigna/resources/models.html OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross - Add [IBIS List] to ibis email. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that she requested status information from IEC TC 93 Secretariat, Greg Ledenbach, but has not yet received a response. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross expects Jean-Claude Perrin to give more information at the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross had no report from the JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings in December 2000. Cecilia Fleming stated that the JEDEC minutes are still being prepared. She will send Bob a copy when they are available. IBIS LIBRARIAN Bob Ross restated from the last meeting that Mike LaBonte has resigned the IBIS Librarian position as a result of accepting a new job at a start-up company. Bob called for nominations for the new position. Bob nominated Michael Cohen, but he declined based on job responsibility issues. Bob then nominated Roy Leventhal. With no further nominations, Bob called for a vote. Roy was unanimously elected to the IBIS Librarian position. Roy stated that his group is currently being formed as CommWorks Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of 3Com. Roy's address is at the end of the Minutes. DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Bob Ross stated again the basic information that the next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2001 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2001). National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch. Milt Schwartz is planning for 50 lunches. DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001. Bob mentioned that we have a passive Booth #861. It is free from DesignCon as part of our co-sponsorship. In the past we have had some electronic demonstrations related to the Accuracy and Connector activities. Innoveda is providing the booth and backdrop. Guy de Burgh requested IBIS member companies to review existing company logos or to provide new logos with Velcro backing for a visual backdrop. The booth will be primarily a meeting place for interaction. Bob will bring some EIA literature. Bob provided some tentative additions to the program (the titles may change): "LVDS Modeling", Hazem Hegany and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics "Modeling Approach for Pre-emphasis Buffers", Hazem Hegany and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics "The Joy of Downloaded Models" Tom Dagostino, Mentor Graphics The existing program so far includes: "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual "Connector Specification Discussion", Gus Panella, Molex "IBIS Futures", Stephen Peters, Intel "SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling" Larry Barnes, LSI Logic. Roy Leventhal will not be able to attend, so his presentation is removed: "Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet", Roy Leventhal, 3Com Bob expected another IBIS-Futures presentation to be determined at the next Working Group Meeting, probably by Al Davis: "IBIS-X Prototype", Al Davis, Consultant Bob stated that we will have enough presentations and discussion items for a full day meeting. Bob may have an introductory presentation. As before, interactive discussion and even Ad-Hoc presentations will be encouraged. Milt Schwartz reported about 10 new signups as a result of the last announcement sent in late December 2000. Bob estimates over 20 people so far, including several that indicated they were attending at this meeting. So we are on target for the usual 30 to 50 attendees. Bob will work with Milt to add the program topics to the next announcement planned for next week. A final announcement should follow later to get a more accurate estimate for participation and lunch (Milt has reserved room for 50). DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Bob Ross stated for the Minutes that the early plans for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the tradeshow portion of the show. Bob indicated that four companies are now planning to co-sponsor the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases). Bob plans to work with the co-sponsors on the final commitments, details, time of meeting, etc. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo stated that he received a model but returned it for further works since it failed ibischk3. ADD [IBIS-List] TO IBIS E-MAIL (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross stated that a request was made regarding adding to tag such as [IBIS-List] to the subject line of IBIS reflector mail. This is similar to the SI list [SI-List] tag. Bob asked John Angulo to look into this. We are now using an older manual mail system, but might transition to Majordomo. John agreed to look into this. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Ian Dodd stated that the planned meeting between he and Gus Panella did not occur on December 12, 2000. After some discussion with Bob Ross, the next Working Group meeting will be planned on January 16, 2001. Roy Leventhal asked, and Bob responded that we were quite far along on the Connector Specification. Ian stated that his main concern was to complete the new formal language for naming pins in the Specification. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Stephen Peters reported on the IBIS Futures meeting held on December 19, 2000. The current activity centers on writing the Header document for the IBIS-X specification. The macro-language for buffers needs to be formally documented based on Al Davis' work. Stephen presented the current issues: (1) aligning the Connector Specification header with the proposed IBIS-X header (this may involve having the same [Begin .. ] [End ..] syntax, and (2) including a die interconnect section (this was one motivation for IBIS-X). Al has released a partially working prototype to the Working Group. It is not ready for public release, but interested people can contact Al directly at aldavis@ieee.org for a copy. Stephen expects to deliver a high level overview of IBIS-X at the IBIS Summit meeting. Al will probably discuss the prototype. This will be discussed at the next Working Group meeting scheduled on January 9, 2001. BIRD65.1 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross stated that we have already approved four BIRDs in a planned IBIS Version 4.0 release. A work in progress draft version of IBIS Version 4.0 with these four BIRDs exists in the following directory: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/ Bob introduced BIRD65.1 noting that Arpad Muranyi, the author, changed the proposed sub-parameter names to C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power and C_comp_ground to be consistent with other keywords and sub-parameters. Bob commented that he would like C_comp_ground to be changed to C_comp_gnd to be even more consistent. Arpad agreed to do this. Bob also noted that Al Davis documented several concerns in and IBIS reflector e-mail. Arpad gave a brief overview of BIRD65.1 indicating that there was a need to split C_comp into four components for better return path analysis. Bob then asked Al to discuss his concerns and Arpad to respond. Al asked how the C_comp components were extracted. Arpad responded that he has been able to do this from Spice files using his extraction utility. Al asked Arpad to post this information. Al stated that vendors often have difficulty allocating DC currents when forming the various I-V tables. He felt that splitting C_comp would be equally difficult. Arpad responded that if the right techniques are followed, the allocation of C_comp can be done correctly (for the purposes of modeling). Roy Leventhal wanted clarification from a higher level on why we should do this. Arpad responded that simulations for return path and resonances need this added detail. Bob asked, and Arpad responded that he has successfully prototyped this decomposition and got improved simulation results. There was some more discussion about modeling level of abstraction and also whether this level of detail created intellectual property issues. Based on Al's comments and discussion, we needed to clarify whether BIRD65.1 intended four or five power nodes. Al stated that BIRD65.1 might be interpreted to mean if C_comp is provided, it is attached to an ideal ground (node "0") reference. Arpad indicated that he intended to have four power nodes. Bob and Al stated that this needs to be clarified. Al commented that IBIS-X could handle even more general C_comp descriptions and decompositions including voltage dependencies. Bob also commented that the TTpower and TTgnd based C value was actually a voltage dependent capacitor. The decomposed C_comp terms were different and assumed to be constant effective capacitances for the purposes of modeling. Bob suggested deferring the vote so that BIRD65.2 could be issued and people absorb some of the discussion. More responses and discussion will be done on the IBIS reflector. So BIRD65.2 will be scheduled for a vote at the next IBIS teleconference meeting. BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED Bob Ross introduced BIRD68 by noting that it had been discussed previously. It clarified further that the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables should be time correlated with each other to a common time reference point. Equal lead-in delay could optionally be removed form both edges. The primary reason for BIRD68 was for correct intersymbol interference analysis. However, in prior meetings, we noted that differential models, driver schedule models and submodels all could have a similar implied restriction. Dave Lorang, author of BIRD68, concurred. Bob noted that one issue was whether to document time correlation explicitly by some sub-parameter or follow BIRD68 and just add this requirement as a clarifying statement. Al Davis favored adding just a clarifying statement since it really is a necessary assumption. Bob agreed, even though he knew of some possible measurement extraction concerns. As previously mentioned, Bob also was concerned with the specific language "input stimulus is assumed to have initiated at the logic transition". This could be interpreted as the time of actually triggering the transition - an undefined or hard to determine value. A better statement might refer to a common input stimulus reference time, such as the beginning of the input stimulus waveform for each edge. While there might be some slight error because of input signal amplitude or ramp rate, this approach would still be more consistent with actual waveform extraction based on simulation or measurement. AR - Bob Ross will work with Dave Lorang regarding the wording, leading possibly for BIRD68.1 Bob stated that BIRD68.1 will be scheduled for a vote at the next teleconference meeting. BIRD69 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS Greg Edlund briefly introduced BIRD69. Greg stated that the IBIS Cookbook, Section 3.2.2, introduced using V-T tables as Golden Waveforms for accuracy comparison. This concept was expanded by the IBIS East Accuracy group that eventually produced the IBIS Accuracy Report. BIRD69 provides the syntax to set up the test circuits (as suggested by Jerry Hayes) and document a corresponding set of "golden waveforms". This is done under two new keywords: [Rising Golden Waveform] and [Falling Golden Waveform]. EDA tools could ignore these additional waveforms or could do accuracy testing by setting up the test circuit simulation and comparing the simulation results with the stored waveforms. Since we were approaching the end of the meeting, Bob Ross planned more discussion on BIRD69 at the next teleconference meeting. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarawal delivered the ibischk3.2.6 source code and it was distributed to the companies holding the parser license on January 2, 2001. New executables for ibischk3 have been generated by Guy de Burgh for various Unix operating systems and Matthew Flora for Windows. Syed Huq is expected to generate a Linux executable soon. The executables are uploaded at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk3/ The older Version 3.2.5 executables are also archived under this directory. Bob noted that the new ibischk3 includes fixes for all bugs through BUG47. The fixes still need to be checked. - BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels Bob stated that we ran out of time before reaching this topic. All that remained was to decide on how we wanted to resolve it. We will plan the final resolution at the next teleconference meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next IBIS Meeting will be the IBIS Summit Meeting at DesignCon in San Jose, CA on Monday, January 29, 2001 from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM. There will not be any teleconference connection. The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday at a date to be determined from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD65.2 and BIRD68.1 are scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================