Date: 2/20/01 SUBJECT: 2/16/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal Agilent (Mark Chang) Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cadence Design Ian Dodd* Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Compaq Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang*, Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi (Tam (Tom) Cao) Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) (Werner Rissiek) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith Apple Computer John Figueroa ASIS Ltd David Wright EIA Cecilia Fleming* FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin Nokia Tapani von Ravner Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt Xilinx Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode March 2, 2001 (916) 356-9200 2-508084 6782941 March 16, 2001 European IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Pravin Patel from IBM introduced himself. He is replacing Michael Cohen who will be in a new position that is less directly involved with IBIS. Pravin's main interest is in working with and using IBIS models. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming reported that she has about 22 payments so far, with more expected based on the latest accounting report. Bob commented that we may lose one member due to economic problems, but we have invoiced three other potential members for a total of 36 invoices. Bob reviewed the year 2000 financial results. We have income of about $32,100 versus the budget of $22,800. Our expenses were $18,700 and the revised budget of $21,400. The net income was $18,700 versus the revised budget of $1,400. About $6,200 of income came from non-budgeted ibischk3 parser license payments for 2000. Cecilia is working on the final numbers to account for some additional membership payments made in 2000. The profits will be handled as a reserve account to be used for future expenses. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The January 5, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The January 29, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this correction: Dr. Norio Matusi submitted a correction for the January 29, 2001 IBIS Summit Minutes regarding the writeup of his presentation - LSI POWER AND GROUND MODEL FOR EMI SIMULATION by Norio Matsui, Applied Simulation Technology and Hiroshi Wabuka, NEC. Norio adds clarification to the last sentence: "Also die interconnect details were not simulated in this study" He submitted the paragraph below: "We have modeled interconnect details in our study. You may find this in two slides. One is flow chart of modeling. Net list plus CR model means that we have extracted so many inter- connection CR models. You may find the result in a slide which shows simplified model. A couple of capacitances both for power and ground are seen simplified model. The original interconnection CRs are involved in the net list." The January 29, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with the above correction (added to the uploaded minutes). The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming reported that the Upcoming Events have been updated per an input from Syed Huq. Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq made some Roster updates and added the Linux executable for ibischk3. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported some Network Switching and Routing IBIS models from Music Semiconductor: http://www.music-ic.com/technical/techfiles.html and some communication IBIS models from Cirrus Logic: http://www.cirrus.com/design/products/pubs/index.cfm?TypeID=14 Also Bob reported that several links list a number of Lattice Semiconductor IBIS models. Registration is required to get the models. The links are: http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/mach4a.html http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/isp2000ve.html http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/isp5000v.html http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/ispgdx.html Also, a link to a Real Time Video of Arpad Muranyi's IBIS Modeling Training course delivered April 18, 2000 exists at: http://www.silicontech.com/home/seminar-index.shtml Arpad Muranyi commented that this link had been up for quite a while. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that she requested status information from IEC TC 93 Secretariat, Greg Ledenbach. After the meeting, she sent Bob the following response from Greg: "The document is published for FDIS voting. The record date was 17-January-2001. The voting period is 26-January-2001 to 13-April-2001 with parallel voting in CENELEC." - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross expects at least one presentation and maybe more at the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross had no report from the JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings in December 2000. Bob received the minutes sent by Cecilia Fleming. There was not any significant IBIS content at that meeting. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported that T10 is holding a meeting in California from February 20 - 22, 2001. Information about the Committee can be found on the web site: http://www.t10.org/ Larry stated that the Committee is interested in producing an IBIS BIRD to reduce drive strength upon detection of a second data bit and subsequent bits. Bob Ross will put the T10 Committee on the agenda for a regular report. DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING REVIEW Bob Ross asked for comments on the DesignCon 2001 IBIS meeting. Bob noted that we had an excellent turnout of 72 plus probably several more who did not sign in. There were some minor logistics issues that were resolved based on the event organizer wanting to save some money. The issues included having refreshments in the room and scheduling the large room at the last minute. These issues were successfully resolved. John Angulo commented that the IBIS-X material was well-received. Guy de Burgh reported that the IBIS booth setup and takedown went smoothly. About half of the EIA brochures were taken, indicating interest in our activities. He is keeping the remainder for another Summit meeting. Bob stated the the logo display looked good. This was a passive booth that served as a meeting place for contacting people. DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Bob Ross gave a report on the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the tradeshow portion of the show. Bob stated that four companies are co-sponsors of the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics, and Zuken (Incases). This pays for the meeting room, refreshments and free lunch to participants. Two announcements have been sent out, one at the end of January 2001, and the other on February 12, 2001. Four presentations are planned so far: Parasitic IC Emisson Modeling Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science, Toulouse, France DOGEN, A Siemens Internal Model Tool, Extension 1999 - 2001 Hans Pichlmaier, Siemens, Germany Experiences with and Tips for IBIS Models Eckhard Lenski, Siemens, Germany LVDS Modeling Hazem Hegazy and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics, Egypt Arpad Muranyi may give an update on IBIS-X, if he attends: IBIS-X Arpad Muranyi, Intel, USA Bob stated that the meeting will probably last most of the day. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo stated that he sent out two LVDS IBIS models from Texas Instruments for review. Also John is working with the semiconductor vendor concerning another model for review. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Bob Ross noted that a meeting was held on January 16, 2001, mostly to prepare for the IBIS Summit Meeting and also to discuss the revised Version 0.960 document. The next meeting is scheduled on February 27, 2001 to resolve some final details. Bob stated that the main issues remaining are finalizing the header section in a manner consistent with the IBIS-X work, and finalizing the expansion code provided by Ian Dodd. Arpad Muranyi questioned when this would be completed. He wants to use the Specification for package modeling and stated that we need to have a target date for release. Ian clarified that the first version will not have frequency dependent losses. After some discussion, Bob set the goal of completion of the document by the Design Automation Conference time frame in June 2001. The Committee needs to review the work, and the actual public review standardization process takes at least three months. Version 0.960 has most of the technical content. It does need some editorial cleanup. The next meeting will be devoted to the final details for release. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Bob Ross stated that Working Group meetings were held on January 9, 2001, January 23, 2001, and February 6, 2001. The next meeting is scheduled on February 20, 2001. John Angulo felt that people were interested in the IBIS-X work at the January 26, 2001 IBIS Summit. There was interest in differential buffers, current mode logic and equation based modeling. John stated that Stephen Nolan was interested in a proof of concept exercise to validate its functionality. The goal of the Working Group is to have a document of the 0.9 level to be released in the June time frame for the IBIS Summit Meeting held at the Design Automation Conference. BIRD65.2 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross introduced BIRD65.2 by stating that C_comp is split into four values to be attached to up to four rails. We have already had discussion on it at the January 5, 2001 meeting and almost conducted a vote. Arpad Muranyi, the author, provided some additional clarification in issuing BIRD65.2. There was more IBIS reflector discussion and apparently satisfactory responses. Arpad commented that splitting C_comp into four components was needed for a better calculation of ground and power bounce effects for simultaneous switching output analysis. In response to e-mail comments by Al Davis, Arpad stated that BIRD65.2 has been prototyped in a commercial product. Arpad did provide in his e-mail utilities to measure and extract the C_comp components. Finally he reworded a paragraph to clarify that if any of the components of C_comp_* were defined, C_comp was not to be used. The EDA tool would issue a Warning if the C_comp components did not add up to the optional C_comp value. Bob noted that another issue was also clarified. C_comp components could be defined even if the corresponding I-V tables were not defined. For example, a C_comp_pullup could be defined for Open_drain models that did not have the corresponding [Pullup] table. Bob called for a vote. BIRD65.2 was approved by unanimous vote. BIRD68.1 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED Bob Ross introduced BIRD68.1 that Dave Lorang issued. BIRD68.1 had revisions discussed at the January 5, 2001 meeting and clarified that the input stimulus could define the common reference point for both [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables. Bob elaborated that while BIRD68.1 was designed to provide a more accurate analysis of intersymbol interference, the correlation was already necessary in modeling differential buffers and handling [Driver Schedule] and [Submodel] constructs. It was noted that BIRD68.1 did not add any new functionality. It clarified the intent of the existing functionality. With this clarification, equal lead-in delay times could be removed from both [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables for faster clock rate analysis. Bob called for a vote. BIRD68.1 was approved by Unanimous vote. Bob stated that approved BIRD65.2 and BIRD68.1 would be added to the draft Version 4.0 specification containing four other approved BIRDs that resides in the work in progress directory: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/ BIRD69 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS Greg Edlund provided a brief introduction to BIRD69. Greg indicated that he had trouble getting his purchasing department to make validated IBIS models a requirement for purchasing components. Embedding the validation waveforms and test circuit provides a solution where the golden waveform keywords could be required by certain vendors. It was noted that the golden waveforms, [Rising Golden Waveform] and [Falling Golden Waveform] are different than the waveforms used in producing the model. Bob Ross commented on some IBIS reflector comments on BIRD69. One dealt with aligning the syntax of the test circuit more closely with some other keywords that indicate connection to ground or power rails. Another stated that the Drive_model_name sub-parameter was redundant since the golden waveforms were already in the specified driver model. Bob also added that the equal sign "=" is used in IBIS only for numerical assignment, and a space is used for name or argument assignment. Greg accepted these comments and would respond in a BIRD69.1 with changes. Bob then opened the discussion to EDA vendors and semiconductor vendors to ask whether they would implement the test circuit analysis or provide the golden waveform data if BIRD69 were passed. The general EDA vendor response was that they would probably do other higher priority projects first unless pressured by users or competition. The semiconductor vendors have a difficult enough time to provide the regular IBIS data and would not want to add to the golden waveform data. Then Bob asked the user community whether they would insist on validation data per BIRD69. Greg responded that there might be interest in doing this. Making this a condition of purchase would force the EDA vendors or some other vendors to add the validation and correlation software in their products. Bob expressed some concerns over BIRD69. While on one hand it provides data that is useful, but could be ignored by tools, it does add complication to the IBIS document. It also does not provide support for the growing need for differential buffer validation. (This could be handled with a separate BIRD.) However, it may still be worthwhile to work on BIRD69 and make the suggested changes. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING - BUG53 - BUG34 is Incorrectly Fixed in Version 3.2.6 Bob Ross commented that Michael Mirmak issued BUG53 in response to an incorrect fix in BUG34. Certain missing I-V warning messages are issued for cases where the I-V tables can be missing. Since Warnings are given for correct models, Bob classified BUG53 as Severe, High, and Open. BUG53 needs to fixed soon. Bob also commented that he reviewed ibischk3.2.6 and it appears to have correct fixes for the other BUGs. - BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels Bob Ross noted that BUG49 was discussed at the January 5, 2001 meeting, but we ran out of time before reaching final resolution. Michael Mirmak also submitted BUG49. It called for a one time Warning message for unreferenced [Model]s that should have been referenced in [Pin], [Model Selector], [Driver Schedule], or [Series Pin Mapping]. It also provided for Warning messages for each unreferenced [Submodel]. After some discussion the resolution was to add BUG49 to the list of BUGs to be fixed. Currently BUGs 48-53 are on the list. Bob noted that BUG53 is the highest priority (to provide the correct fix of BUG34). Currently users may use ibischk3 Version 3.2.6, but also may need to use ibischk3 Version 3.2.5 to test provide assurance that the BUG53 Warning message is not a problem. CONCLUDING TOPICS In the remaining time, Bob Ross and others continued the discussion regarding the goals of IBIS. One issue is whether to include equation based modeling in the first release of IBIS-X, or to conduct a staged release with it coming in the second release . Package modeling is not yet being addressed. The nodal syntax can be used, but the full package modeling should support coupled transmission line package models. Michael Cohen thanked everyone and stated that it was an honor to work with the IBIS Committee. Bob thanked Michael for his service during the past years. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 2, 2001, from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================