Date: 3/5/01 SUBJECT: 3/02/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal* Agilent (Mark Chang) Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cadence Design Ian Dodd* Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Compaq Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone* IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi (Tam (Tom) Cao) Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) (Werner Rissiek) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith Apple Computer John Figueroa ASIS Ltd David Wright Cereva Networks Bob Haller* EIA Cecilia Fleming* FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin Nokia Tapani von Ravner Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt Xilinx Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode March 16, 2001 European IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge March 30, 2001 (916) 356-9200 2-524673 6244264 April 20, 2001 (916) 356-9200 2-524674 3881934 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Haller from Cereva Networks (a 250 person "start-up" company) joined. Bob had been active in the past years with another company. He is now involved as actively uses IBIS models and is interested in accuracy issues. Bob also expressed interest in getting his company to become an official member of the EIA IBIS Open Forum. Adam Trambone of Fairchild Semiconductor had attended the Designcon 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting. He is responsible for producing IBIS models for several technologies. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Signal Integrity Software (SISoft) is now an official EIA IBIS Open Forum member (and now listed in the Voting Members Participants List). Bob stated, as previously reported, that we have about 22 payments out of 36 invoices so far. Bob said that he is working with Cecilia Fleming on the final year 2000 results. He expects credit for some additional revenue that was not given in the preliminary report at the February 16, 2001 meeting. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The February 16, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq made roster updates and added a new logo in the Poster link. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE None. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES During the Meeting, Bob Ross - Version 4.0 Release Plans INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming added more clarification to the previous report that if the FDIS (Final Draft International Standard) vote is successful, IBIS Version 3.2 can be published as an official international standard sometime after April 13, 2001. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross mentioned that there are three presentations planned at the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001. This will be discussed later. Also, there are two other related presentations on EMI and ground bounce issues. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported on the meeting held February 20-22, 2001. Work is progressing on the SCSI Signal Modeling (SSM) Technical Report. The Committee is interested in proposing a "fallback driver" function in IBIS similar to [Driver Schedule] that reduces the strength of the buffer if a second consecutive bit is specified. This functionality is needed soon since the final specification of the SCSI device will be ready in several months. Larry also mentioned that 3-level logic will become standardized in several years, but is not pushing for this functionality in the current IBIS Standard. Bob Ross stated that this would be implemented better in IBIS-X. Larry commented that the SSM report took much information from the IBIS Cookbook and adapted it to the SCSI standard. Bob also mentioned that had a few editorial comments related to some nomenclature conventions we adopted after the cookbook was issued. The document can be retrieved from the SCSI Signal Modeling Technical Report (SCM) link under: http://www.t10.org/ssm.htm or directly at: ftp://ftp.t10.org/drafts/ssm/ssm-r02.pdf Larry recommended to his Committee members to become involved with the IBIS Open Forum. DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Bob Ross introduced the topic by giving the basic information so far on the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the trade show portion of the show. Bob stated that four companies are co-sponsors of the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics, and Zuken (Incases). This pays for the meeting room, refreshments and free lunch to participants. Bob stated that a third Announcement was recently sent on February 27, 2001, with about eleven presentations. The program now completely filled with about fourteen presentations, and the meeting will last all day. So far, Bob estimates about 25 people have signed up, which translates into about 40 attendees so far. The next announcement will contain a revised Agenda and will ask for signup responses to better anticipate the number of reservations for lunch that is provided. Bob then went over the additions to the program from the last announcement. A draft Agenda is listed below. EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Astron Hotel, Munich Germany MARCH 16, 2001 8:30 REFRESHMENTS 9:00 INTRODUCTIONS AND PROGRAM Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics, USA 9:30 Experiences with and Tips for IBIS Models Eckhard Lenski, Siemens AG, Germany 10:00 Extraction of Key IBIS Parameters for Easier Model Selection John Berrie, Zuken, England 10:30 BREAK 10:45 DOGEN, A Siemens Internal Model Tool, Extension 1999 - 2001 Hans Pichlmaier, Siemens AG, Germany 11:15 LVDS Modeling Hazem Hegazy and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics, Egypt 12:00 LUNCH 13:00 STTL-2 Modeling Experiences Bernhard Unger, Siemens AG, Germany 13:30 CAN (Controller Area Network) Bus Modeling Manfred Maurer, Siemens AG, Germany 14:00 EMC Standardization Progress (title to be determined) Jean-Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments, France 14:15 EMC Models (title to be determined) Christian Marot, Siemens, France 14:30 Parasitic IC Emission Modeling Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science, Toulouse, France 15:00 BREAK 15:15 Ground-Noise Model Mariusz Faferko, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration, Germany 15:45 Radiated Emission Model for IC Peter Kralicek, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration, Germany 16:15 Points of View for High Frequency IBIS Models Gerald Bannert, Siemens AG, Germany 16:30 IBIS-X Arpad Muranyi, Intel, USA 16:55 Concluding Items 17:00 END Arpad Muranyi stated that he plans to attend and can work with the final twenty five minutes with information based on some previous presentations. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo stated (later in the meeting) that he has received no new models since the report on the February 16, 2001 meeting. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Bob Ross summarized a meeting between he and Gus Panella held on February 27, 2001. The main changes were to add the [Begin Header] and [End Header] syntax as done in the IBIS-X document. Bob also indicated that there will be a pass to improve the document appearance including removing the left-hand bars. Ian Dodd had sent out a revised code proposal to the committee to bring its syntax closer to the IBIS-X macro language proposed syntax. Bob stated that this revised code would be included. The basic plan is to finish doing these changes and then issue a new document for the IBIS Open Forum to review. It would be in several formats including .txt, .doc, and .pdf. The plan is to schedule some time (15 to 30 minutes) of each teleconference meeting to review specified portions of the document. People can still comment on the document as a whole and we can continue to work in the other areas. Hopefully this review completion can be completed in the targeted June 2001 time frame. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Stephen Peters reported on the progress to date and on the February 20, 2001 meeting. The next meeting will be on the two week schedule on March 6, 2001. Stephen is working on another update of the specification document the Working Group is developing. The target is to get this document and the IBIS-X macro language documented by the June 2001 time frame. One item that needs more work is the pin to pad packaging portion. There might also be interest in applying the Swathing methods in the Connector document. Also, Bob Ross mentioned that a number of older proposals could be reviewed. Bob also mentioned that at the next Working Group meeting, Arpad's IBIS-X presentation for the European IBIS Summit might be discussed. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross moved this agenda item ahead until Greg Edlund returned to the call. Bob reported that Matthew Flora is working on the fix to BUG53 and BUG34. Matthew will coordinate with Atul Agarwal and send the revised source code to him. BUG34 was authored by Matthew, and Bob felt that Matthew knew the issues and possible areas of code that needed fixing. Bob wants to get an ibischk3 Version 3.2.7 distributed quickly, even if that is the only fix. - BUG54 - Corners with NA give Bad Test Load Warnings Bob Ross introduced BUG54, authored by Michael Mirmak. It reports a Warning message for the timing test load Vmeas crossing for min and max column cases even when the min and max columns contain NA entries. Bob classified BUG54 as Annoying, Low, and Open. However, Bob expressed some concerns regarding BUG54. While most of the min and max columns contained NA entries, three keywords ([Ramp], [Voltage Range], and [Temperature Range]) did contain min and max column numerical entries. The problem may still exist if these entries were NA, but the example needs to be produced to test this. Also, since most EDA tools should use default typical entries if NAs exist, the problem may still exist. Bob thought that with such defaults, the model should work fine and should not produce Warning messages. More investigation is needed in this area. Bob thought the actual set of tests and Warnings might become complicated and require effort to sort out combinations when only some keywords contain NA entries. Bob was concerned about the effort involved versus the benefit obtained. Michael commented later in the meeting that he would issue a new version of BUG54 with a better example or examples. Bob planned more discussion at the next teleconference meeting to decide on whether or not to fix BUG54 and how to fix it. BIRD69.1 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS Greg Edlund introduced BIRD69.1 by noting that it was issued in response to comments of the February 16, 2001 meeting. Briefly, the intent of BIRD69.1 is to provide golden waveforms within the IBIS model along with the test configuration used to obtain these waveforms. The user would have the golden waveform information and could test the IBIS model using the specified test configuration to validate the performance of the model. The EDA tool could also perform such a test. However, since this information is contained in new keywords, the EDA tool could also ignore these keywords. Greg noted the changes made in BIRD69.1. They are documented in BIRD69.1 and include the following: Change Node to Test_point Remove Driver_model_name since it was redundant Add R_diff for differential models Change some terminology so that parallel terminators V_term1 and V_term2 can be attached to different voltages Add Pkg_pin to describe what package is to be used for the model Bob Ross called for discussion. Stephen Peters commented that it still called for a big network with fixed topology. The IBIS-X approach would support a more general tester functionality. Roy Leventhal commented that he favors BIRD69.1 since it could be specified for IBIS Version 4.0 earlier than the anticipated IBIS-X. Bob Haller is concerned about the accuracy of models. He emphasized that the the EDA tool could use or ignore the information. But the golden waveform provides important information about the accuracy of the model. Stephen stated that while there may be merit, it might not be of as high a priority as some other items. We set a new agenda item to talk about the possible new items needed for Version 4.0. Greg stated that this should be a low impact BIRD. However, it would increase the size of the IBIS Standard, and create more work for updating ibischk3. Yong Phan stated that one customer required golden data. In the short term this need was satisfied by suppling a Spice model as reference. Bob provided some technical comments about BIRD69.1 and about some related implications: One implication concerning the R_diff entry that both the Non-Inverting and Inverting drivers would have to be from the same model. This is not an IBIS requirement. The models could be different. However, Bob did not know whether this restriction would be a problem. Bob was unsure that the Tref entry to state a time reference was needed or the best way to handle this. EDA tools might do their own alignment of data. The actual alignment might be shifted by leading edge removal that is implied by BIRD68. The Pkg_pin addition was a good idea. Some of the golden data might be from measurements, and we need to know what pin is used. However, the approach in IBIS is still ambiguous. Some semiconductor vendors supply several components with a file that may reference the same model. One reason for doing this is to cover package variations that are shipped. These variations may even have different pin outs. Bob also stated another implication of this subparameter. It is not clear clear what to do if Pkg_pin referred to a pin that was modeled using a coupled package model. Greg stated that he did assume a single pin model configuration. Bob noted that the original [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] keywords got around the pin ambiguity problem by adding R_dut, L_dut, and C_dut subparameters. A similar approach could be used for the golden waveform keywords. Another implication of having [Golden Rising Waveform] and [Golden Falling Waveform] is that the golden responses would be for only one edge. Bob thinks this is all right. However, some semiconductor vendors might want to provide full cycle references. Also there might be some implications if the IBIS model was actually derived from edges after several cycles. Finally, Bob stated that all of the subparameters should be optional. A large list is currently required, as BIRD69.1 is now structured. The defaults could be stated based on unspecified shunt elements being open and series elements being shorted. Also, this resolves an inconsistency regarding requiring "none" if no Receiver model or Pkg_pin were needed. They should be included only if listed. Bob felt that not all of the comments needed to be addressed by changes, but some of the limitations should noted. Bob asked Greg to consider the comments and propose a response as BIRD69.2 for further discussion at the next teleconference meeting. VERSION 4.0 RELEASE PLANS - New Topic Bob Ross opened the topic by noting that the six approved BIRDs could go into IBIS Version 4.0 or could be implemented in IBIS-X as a Version 4.0 emulation mode. Stephen Peters felt that IBIS Version 4.0 was needed along with IBIS-X. Arpad Muranyi commented that it is needed, and is about a year late from when it was originally expected. Larry Barnes stated that the fallback driver functionality is needed soon since SCSI applications will have this feature in months. Bob stated he would work off line with Larry to propose a BIRD. Bob noted that some other related features that are needed could be included. He favored using the Submodel approach rather than a method patterned after [Driver Schedule]. Stephen noted that some PCI functionality concerning more timing thresholds has been discussed on e-mail reflectors and is needed. He plans to work on this. Greg Edlund commented that he and Syed Huq have also been concerned about PCI specification needs and might join in helping define and review this functionality. Bob stated that he might want to include some possible improvements for SSO (simultaneous switching output) modeling as proposed last year by Bernhard Unger. Bob stated that IBIS Version 4.0 is still intended to be a "minor" upgrade to capture some of the recent needs for completeness. However, some EDA tools might actually use IBIS-X methods to implement the new features. Bob also stated that in targeting a Version 4.0 release in the near futures, all of the possible improvements need to be proposed soon. He expects that a few more BIRDs may also be proposed as part of the process to reach closure. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on Friday, March 16, 2001. No teleconference connection is planned. The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 30, 2001, from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================