DATE: 6/4/01 SUBJECT: 6/1/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal* Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer John Figueroa Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek Lynne Green*, Lance Wang* Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, Matthew Flora Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs LSI Logic Larry Barnes Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad, Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim, Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi (Tam (Tom) Cao) Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque* Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith ASIS Ltd David Wright Brocade Communications Robert Badal BMW Friedrich Hasinger Cereva Networks Bob Haller Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam, Bill Ham Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet (Aerospatiale) EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines EIA Cecilia Fleming* FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek Reliability and Integration Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard Science (INSA) Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren, Janne Uusitalo Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres Sun Adrian Udenze Xilinx Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode Thursday June 21, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Phone Bridge July 20 (888) 316-5901 none 8744603 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Lynne Green, who attended the May 11, 2001 IBIS Meeting, from Cadence replaces Ian Dodd and is interested in IBIS-X, the IBIS Connector Specification and other activities. Moshiul Haque from Texas Instruments is an Application Engineer in charge of an IBIS Modeling Team and is interested in bus hold, and future IBIS activities. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that Huawei Technologies located in China is now an official EIA IBIS Open Forum member and listed as a voting member. Several voting members who have not paid and have not been responsive have been moved to the Other Participants list or have been deleted. We are still contacting several others regarding payment issues. Currently we are up to 29 paid members and are on or ahead of our budget. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The May 11, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The ARs will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross asked the officers for dates they might be out during the Summer. Bob reported June 22 through July 17, Stephen Peters reported July 9 through July 20, and Guy de Burgh reported July 13 through July 27. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq did more updates to the Roster link on the IBIS home page and added a Poster entry. Greg Edlund announced that a suggested checklist.txt has been added to the Accuracy Link of the IBIS home page for checking IBIS models. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported some new model links can be found on the Models link page that Roy Leventhal maintains under the IBIS home page: Agilent Technologies models can be found through a search on IBIS and then select Download IBIS Models. Also there is a writeup on IBIS Modeling of their Fiber Optic transceivers. http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com/ Search on IBIS for ServerWorks models: http://www.serverworks.com/ Also, Bob reported that Agere Systems (formerly Lucent Technologies) has an Ambassador IBIS Model: http://www.lucent.com/micro/access/ambassador/ctidoc.cgi A number of other links have changed. Mitel Semiconductor is now Zarlink Semiconductor. You can currently find one model by searching under http://www.zarlink.com/index.html OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross - A Pending ibischk3 BUG INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia reported that the document is listed as being in the prepublication status. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross stated that the EIAJ has merged with another group, and he cannot find the link to the IMIC document. - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross reported that Etienne Sicard will probably present the work at the September IBIS Summit meeting instead of the DAC IBIS Summit meeting. Bob repeated from the last meeting that there is a subdirectory for EMC data on: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/emc/ - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross stated that a discussion on a possible joint meeting is planned later in the agenda. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report since Larry Barnes could not attend this meeting. DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS Bob Ross repeated for the minutes the general plans for the next IBIS Summit Meeting. The annual meeting is conducted along with the Design Automation Conference (DAC), held this year in Las Vegas, Nevada. The IBIS Summit Meeting will be in the Hilton Hotel adjacent to the Las Vegas Convention Center. The meeting date is Thursday, June 21, 2001, the day following the trade show portion of DAC. This meeting is sponsored by the IBIS Open Forum through the dues. Guy de Burgh is coordinating the signups, presentations and other local logistics. EIA and Cecilia Fleming is handling the meeting site and luncheon logistics. Bob stated that about 19 people indicated they are attending. Bob estimates that we will have the normal turnout of 20 to 30 people. Current company travel restrictions are having some impact on attendance. Guy de Burgh stated that he is having trouble reserving an LCD projector and suggested asking everyone to bring foil overheads. Bob stated that he prefers foils for better interaction and meeting flow. However, he asked Cecilia Fleming to bring and LCD projector and she agreed. (After the meeting Cecilia indicated that all of her projectors are checked out.) Bob Review the tentative program under development: Administrative Issues - Election of IBIS Officers for 2001 - 2002 Connector Specification Discussion - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics IBIS-X Discussion - Stephen Peters (2 hours) IBIS-X Document - Stephen Peters, Intel Corporation IBIS Macro Language - Stephen Peters, Intel Corporation Applying IBIS Macro Language to New Keywords - Al Davis, Consultant IBIS Version 4.0 Issues - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Enhanced Buffer Extraction - Hazem Hegazy, Mentor Graphics Driver Schedule Modeling - Chris Reid, Mentor Graphics Behavioral Frequency Domain Modeling - Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corp. SCSI and Fiber Channel Overview, Larry Barnes, LSI Logic Guy de Burgh stated that at the end of the meeting that he might have some material on IBIS Modeling for EMC Bob noted that the IBIS Verison 4.0 and Connector Modeling discussion might be brief for this meeting. Bob discussed that for the Election of IBIS Officers, the existing officers (at the end of these Minutes) are all nominated and available for their current positions, except that Stephen Peters, and Bob are planning to switch roles. Stephen is a candidate for Chair and Bob a candidate for Vice-Chair. Other nominations can be sent to Guy de Burgh, and also will be accepted at the meeting. Greg Edlund asked if absentee votes can be cast. Bob responded that we will accept absentee votes. They can be sent to Guy. Bob asked Guy to send out another notice. We have enough topics on the program to fill most of the day, so we do not need to ask for any more. In fact one or two might be proposed at the last minute. Bob will work with Guy to put in the tentative agenda topics in the next announcement. Bob will also issue the actual Agenda one week before the meeting. The meeting is still planned to start at 8:30 AM. People can arrive earlier for refreshments before the meeting. FUTURE IBIS MEETINGS Bob Ross introduced that EIA is planning a multiple organization meeting week next year from September 9 - 13, 2002 in Vancouver, Canada. The IBIS Open Forum is invited to also plan a Summit Meeting there. The organizations include various JEDEC JC4X.Y groups for memories, JC-16 for Modeling and Testing, the Compact Modeling Council for Spice device model standardization, and others. Cecilia Fleming added that a component group will also join. So the purpose of the joint, co-located meeting is to allow individuals from one organization to attend meetings of another organization that may be of related interest. Bob noted that we normally plan the meeting on the East Coast associated with the PCB Conference East in September. So we would have to decide which one to hold. Lynne Green commented that maybe both meetings could be held, and the West Coast joint meeting would appeal to those who normally would not travel to the East Coast meeting. Bob commented that some groups require non-members to be invited. However, Cecilia stated that according to EIA rules, it is permissible for non-members to attend two successive meetings as an observer. Bob concluded that this choice will need to be considered some time next year. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo reported that he received two models. One is ready to be sent out. John asked for more participation as a reviewer, and Lynne Green volunteered. Bob Ross discussed some of the activities and indicated that the reviewers consist of EDA vendors representatives who have access to IBIS Model processing tools. They can actually check the operation of the IBIS Model and report back privately their comments to the semiconductor vendor model provider. Roy Leventhal suggested that Model Review committee also ask if any semiconductor vendor has links to IBIS models on their Web sites. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Bob Ross mentioned that meetings were held on May 15, 2001 and May 29, 2001. The Working Group now consists has several members from the IBIS Futures Work Group. Meetings will be held every week until the week before the IBIS Summit Meeting. the next meeting will be to continue to review the keywords in Chapter 8. Most of the technical content exists in this section and will also be reviewed. The latest document (Version 0.966) uploaded under the Connector link of the IBIS home page. Bob stated that he originally planned to do the review at the IBIS meetings. The technical concerns are probably too difficult to discuss with the whole group at this time. Stephen Peters added that the scope of the meeting are to bring the Connector Specification and the IBIS-X documents into editorial and format alignment. Bob added that two different Working Groups had adopted some different conventions for similar functions, and the differences now need to be resolved. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Stephen Peters reported that weekly meetings were held on May 15, 2001, May 22, 2001 and May 29, 2001. The meetings follow the Connector Working Group Meetings. The next meetings for both groups are scheduled on June 5, 2001 and June 12, 2001. The top level IBIS-X document Version 0.5 document has been uploaded in the Futures Group link of the IBIS Home page for public review. The Working Group is now writing the outline to produce the IBIS Macro Language document. The past meetings have focused on data structure issues. The above material will be introduced at the IBIS Summit Meeting. Bob Ross thanked Stephen for taking a leading role in both the Connector Specification and IBIS Futures Working Group and in authoring the Working Group documents. BIRD70.3 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS Greg Edlund stated that the only remaining issue on BIRD70.3 is how the [Test Data] subparameter Test_data_type and [Test Load] subparameter Test_data_type interact. Both subparameters can have "Single-ended" or "Differential" as arguments. The allowable combinations and related restrictions need to be documented. Bob Ross added that another issue is how to deal with the possibility of unsymmetrical differential drivers. Some more subparameters may need to be added. For example, the Driver_model subparameter may also need an optional Driver_model_inv subparameter to document a different inverting driver. These topics were discussed. Lynne Green asked if timing offset can be included in differential golden waveforms. Milt Schwartz commented that most differential applications (such as for LVDS) want the offset time minimized. There are even specifications for common mode variation at a mid point of a differential terminator (AC Coupled to ground). Greg Edlund stated that the intent of the Golden Waveforms was to cross-correlate normal performance with golden performance. Bob concluded that we do not need to add the capability of dealing with differential, skewed Golden Waveforms. During the discussion, Stephen Peters asked what is needed to bring closure. Bob commented that these issues need to be raised and discussed on the IBIS reflector. Greg could issue BIRD70.4, etc. to capture any resolution. One proposal was to allow only both "Differential" or both "Single-ended" choices. However, other combinations and their restrictions still need to be resolved. Greg stated that he will raise the issue on the IBIS reflector and issue BIRD70.4 as we reach agreement. BIRD71 - TIMING TEST LOADS IN [Model Spec] TO SUPPORT PCI & PCI-X Stephen Peters commented that BIRD71 has not been changed since it was introduced at the last meeting. Stephen commented that Arpad Muranyi asked on the IBIS reflector if a more general set of timing test loads were needed. Stephen responded that his intent was to complete the timing specification choices under [Model Spec] to their logical conclusion. In doing so, he checked the PCI specifications to see that all cases were covered. Bob Ross stated that the additions were to document min and max Cref and Rref values and to document all cases where the Cref, Rref, Vref, and Vmeas values can be different for the rising and falling edges. Bob commented that BIRD71 seemed to do this well. His only concern was how the EDA tools were to work with this data. There are two points of view. One is to used the timing subparameters along with the corner conditions to document a worse case load for one of the timing corners. Such corners are documented in some specifications. The second point of view is to use the timing load as a calibration factor for data sheet Tco delays. The IBIS model (for example, a model with [Ramp] based time response) does not capture any Tco delay. Stephen agreed to look at this and perhaps provide some clarification statements in an updated BIRD71.1. Bob stated that he expects BIRD71 to be voted on soon. OTHER PENDING BIRDS Stephen Peters asked what is needed to close out IBIS Version 4.0. Bob Ross stated that completion of BIRD70.3 and BIRD71 are needed. Bob is also considering a fallback submodel additions to capture an effect that the Bus_hold submodel cannot handle for some dynamic output impedance control type operations (where the impedance increases during a transition). Bob believes that the existing [Driver Schedule] keyword will be satisfactory for handling the SCSI second bit strength reduction simulation. So no further work is needed for this. We are still want to consider the simple additions for SSO improvement that Dr. Unger originally proposed a while ago. However, there might be issues with this, or it might be limited to certain topologies. In all cases, BIRDs are needed. Bob stated that he did not have time to follow through on these because of other activities. However, we should expect that all of the related BIRDs will be resolved by around September. We may decide not to include some of the extra features. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING - BUG56 Parser Fails to Detect Always Flowing Current Bob Ross stated that the decision to Fix BUG56 was made at the May 11, 2001 meeting. The [Pullup], [Pulldown], [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp] tables would all be checked to see that they cross or reach 0 Volts. Bob needed to know what tolerance to set is there is noise and 0 Volts is not reached exactly. There are several technologies such as ECL where this could occur. Bob stated that he and Matthew Flora and discussed this off-line and Matthew had suggested 1 uV. The group agreed that 1 uV should be the limit. Bob will add this information to BIRD56. - A Pending ibischk3 BUG (New agenda item) Bob Ross stated that normally there is a problem related to the recent BUG53 and BUG34 fixes that introduced both Error and Warning messages based on the degree of waveform mismatch. A greater than 10 percent difference produces an error. One problem is that the mismatch check itself may not work properly if there are legal non-monotonic points in the output table in, for example the clamping region. The ibischk3 testing algorithm appears to start searching for converge at the end rather than at the middle. The consequence is that a legal IBIS model with no mismatch may be rejected by an Error message. This issue is whether to fix the algorithm, or to change the Error back to a Warning. A second problem is in some cases some percentages for Warning messages are wrong. Normally Bob would actually issue the BUG report before discussing a BUG, but he wanted to alert the committee of a pending BUG and its choices. END OF MEETING TOPIC Pravin Patel asked about some work Guy de Burgh might have presented regarding EMC modeling in IBIS. Guy responded that he has some ideas on parameters that are needed and might discuss this at the IBIS Summit Meeting in June, 2001. (Note, this is added to the possible list of topics on the Agenda.) NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be the DAC2001 IBIS Summit Meeting in Las Vegas, Nevada, scheduled all day on June 21, 2001. No teleconference connection is planned. The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, July 20, 2001, from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ==============================================================================