DATE: 8/14/01 SUBJECT: August 10, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer John Figueroa Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek, Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang LSI Logic Larry Barnes Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino*, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad, Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim, Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet, Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz Sigrity Raj Raghuram* SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith ASIS Ltd David Wright Brocade Communications Robert Badal BMW Friedrich Hasinger Cereva Networks Bob Haller Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam, Bill Ham EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet (Aerospatiale) EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines EIA Cecilia Fleming* Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek Reliability and Integration Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Idaho State University Al Davis Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard Science (INSA) Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren, Janne Uusitalo Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres Sun Adrian Udenze Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode August 31, 2001 (916) 356-2663 2 4779396 Thursday, September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Phone Bridge All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------ INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new members. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that Sigrity has become an official EIA IBIS Member and Cypress Semiconductor has renewed its membership, making 31 members to date. They are now listed as Voting Members. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The July 20, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The ARs will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that the August 2001 issue of Integrated System Design (ISD) has the article "Signal Integrity Analysis Reaps Huge Dividends for Network Board Designers" by Hans Pichlmaier and Heinz Harmut Ibowski on pp. 26-30. The article includes discussion of IBIS and IBIS modeling issues. It can be found at: http://www.isdmag.com/story/OEG20010803S0027 Bob also put some uploaded some old IBIS material for historical interest. Some older IBIS Summit meeting material (mostly minutes) from 1993 through 1996 are under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ The .zip files containing the sets of minutes for 1993 and 1994 are expanded under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/minutes/ Bob noted that Syed Huq has done some more Roster updates and updated the JEITA IMIC link to be listed later. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported on some new and changed IBIS Model links: Elpida Memory, Inc. (Distributes Hitachi and NEC Memories): http://www.elpida-memory.com/en/products/model.html Hitachi DRAM and Modules are now under (URL is split to avoid truncation): http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/memory/simulation/ dram_simulatee.html I-Cube, Inc. has IBIS models under Products, Design Support Downloads: http://www.icube.com/ Music Semiconductor's IBIS models are moved to: http://www.music-ic.com/index.php?section1=support&contentid=support_ibis OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross - DesignCon 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting. This is discussed below. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that the document is available and can be found under the following links (split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation). http://www.iec.ch/cgi-bin/procgi.pl/www/ iecwww.p?wwwlang=e&wwwprog=TCpubs.p&committee=TC&number=93 It can be purchased for 136 Swiss Francs. The IEC 62014-1 agenda item will now be dropped. - JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross reported EIAJ has merged with JEITA and that the IMIC document is now located under: http://tsc.jeita.or.jp/eds/IOPG.htm - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters stated that Etienne Sicard plans to present the work at the September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit. This will be discussed later in the meeting. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report. PCB CONFERENCE EAST 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS Stephen Peters reported that an IBIS Summit Meeting is planned for Thursday, September 13, 2001 in Worcester, Massachusetts at the Crowne Plaza Hotel near the PCB Conference East 2001 show. The meeting follows the day after the trade show portion of the show. The Upcoming events link of the IBIS Home page already contains the sign-up information and hotel information. Free lunch and refreshments are included. Stephen stated that the first and second announcements have been sent by Kathy Breda of NESA. Currently 13 or 14 attendees have signed up. Stephen asked, and most of the officers are planning to attend. To date, four presentations are planned (titles may change): "Modeling the Radiated Emission of Micro-controllers", Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science (INSA) in France "A Proposal for s2ibis3", Michael Steer, North Carolina State University "Power/Ground Simulation with IBIS Models and Pin Mapping Issues", Raj Raghuram, Sigrity, Inc. Title to be determined related to being a user of IBIS models Bob Haller, Cereva Networks Stephen stated that Lynne Green of the futures committee will present several IBIS-X examples for discussion and Stephen will discuss IBIS-X and Connector Specification progress. Two other presentations on various issues are pending. Stephen and Bob Ross discussed the funding issue. Economic conditions are tight this year. Mentor Graphics is still willing to commit to sharing either 1/3 of the expenses with others or giving a fixed amount. The overall meeting cost including lunch is estimated to be around $2,000. Another company also expressed interest. Bob stated that the only benefit would be co-sponsorship recognition on the announcements and at the meeting and possibly having your name on a banner at the meeting. Allowing co-sponsors to give product demonstrations would not be offered since this was not being offered to all interested companies. Stephen proposed that the EIA IBIS Open Forum pick up the remaining balance. Bob seconded the proposal. After some discussion, the Committee voted unanimously by roll call vote to accept the proposal. DESIGNCON 2002 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross reported early planning is underway for an IBIS Summit Meeting on Monday, January 28, 2002 in Santa Clara, California and associated with DesignCon 2002. We expect to be an Associate Sponsor, as in the past. Bob asked whether we should have a passive booth. Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda is willing to supply and handle the booth setup. In the past, National Semiconductor has sponsored the lunch. Milt Schwartz stated that he is still investigating the possibility this year. Because of the economy, it may take a while to find out. Bob stated that we do not need an immediate answer. However, other companies are welcome to be a co-sponsor. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross will take over short term until we find a replacement. In the mean time, John Angulo will transfer any outstanding information to Bob. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported that ibis@eda.org is now being distributed under majordomo. Some details and settings regarding archiving are still being worked out, but since July 24, 2001, the ibis@eda.org e-mail is archived under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/hm/ John indicated that he is still working on issues including some cosmetic formatting details and attachment references (attachments are permitted and are stored in a lower directory). Bob Ross stated that the archive is in HTML format which loses some text spacing alignment detail. Also Bob stated that some messages appear not to have been delivered, indicating that there are still some glitches. John stated that the subscription process through majordomo involves a response, and a response to the response to validate the correct address. Even with significant overlap, we still plan to maintain two lists, if possible. One is the normal business list (ibis@eda.org), and the other is the users list (ibis-users@eda.org). John stated that we have not received a significant amount of spam through the lists at this time. Bob proposed that the list remain open at this time to minimize the disruption. We can trap some spam mail, if needed. John stated that he has had good response with the list administrators, and will probably complete the conversion in a few weeks. Stephen Peters thanked John for his work. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Stephen Peters reported that the Connector review committee meet July 24 and 31, and again August 7th. The committee is continuing with the review of the specification, including a couple of specific keywords that were added. Bob Ross also mentioned that, starting August 14th, the connector meeting has been expanded to two hours weekly. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS futures committee meet July 24, 31, and August 3. Stephen also noted that starting August 17th the meetings will change days to Thursday afternoon. Stephen reported that the committee has finalized the list of primitive element for IBIS-X, and Lynne Green will be documenting them in the IBIS-X Macro Language Reference manual. The committee also reviewed a proposal to restructure the IBIS-X data file. After considerable debate, the committee decided to postpone major restructuring until after the initial IBIS-X specification has been released. Stephen then gave the background regarding the funding proposal for an IBIS-X parser. Al Davis has offered his parser, under several different license arrangements, for use by the committee. Stephen stated that he felt the IBIS Open Forum must retain control of the source of any "official" IBIS-X parser, and Bob Ross concurred. A lively discussion ensued, in which several people noted that the IBIS-X parser should go through a bidding process as was done for the IBIS 3.2 parser. It was noted that we cannot do this until the current IBIS-X specification is stable. Several people indicated that there might be a business conflict of interest, and Bob Ross stated that we need to adopt an arms length relationship regarding any financial or business aspects related to any unofficial parser development activity. BIRD70.4 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS Stephen Peters introduced BIRD70.4 that Greg Edlund issued on July 23, 2001. (Bob Ross discovered that the date on uploaded BIRD70.4 was incorrect, leading to some initial confusion.) Stephen noted that while the waveform tables in this bird were assumed to follow the same rules for construction as the existing [Rising Waveform]/[Falling Waveform] keywords, the proposed bird did not state this explicitly. Greg agreed to adding a sentence to make this explicit. Both Lynne Green and Stephen mentioned that the location where waveform data was measured was not explicitly defined. After discussion Greg agreed to add wording that clarified that 'near' data is measured at the driver pad while 'far' data is measured as the receiver pad. Bob Ross noted that if Test_data_type is Differential, the bird did not state which driver output (inverting or non-inverting) a single ended waveform would be generated from. After discussion Greg agreed to clarify this by explicitly specifying the non-inverting output. Finally, Bob observed that the use of the term 'SPICE' when describing reference waveforms was not clear. Bob proposed using the term 'reference waveforms', and after discussion this was agreed to. Stephen then called for a vote with the above changes. Bird 70.4, as amended, was accepted unanimously by roll call vote. AR - Greg Edlund issue BIRD70.5 with the approved changes. [Done] BIRD71 - TIMING TEST LOADS IN [Model Spec] TO SUPPORT PCI & PCI-X Stephen Peters then introduced Bird 71 for a final vote. Bob Ross noted a few minor editorial changes which Stephen agreed to. Stephen then called for a vote. Bird 71 was accepted unanimously by roll call vote. BIRD72 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS/PMOS SERIES FET MODELS Stephen Peters deferred discussion because not everyone received a copy due to mailer problems. This will be discussed at the next meeting. AR - Bob Ross will reissue BIRD72 on both reflectors. BIRD73 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL Stephen Peters deferred discussion because not everyone received a copy due to mailer problems. This will be discussed at the next meeting. AR - Bob Ross will reissue BIRD72 on both reflectors. AR - Stephen Peters will issue a notice on the ibis-users reflector stating that the main ibis reflector is not propagating all posts. [Done] IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal will plans to do the ibischk3 parser update for BUGs 48-56 by the middle to end of September, 2001. This may not include BUG54, which he does not understand. BUG58 - Wrong Bug Number for Missing R,L,C_pkg Subparameters(s) Bob Ross discussed BUG58 submitted by Lance Wang. The Error message issued for a missing required subparameter line such as L_pkg is not close to the problem. For example, the error line number was not for the next keyword, but the following keyword. After some discussion, BUG58 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN. We will plan to fix this unless we find some difficult technical issues. BUG59 - Crash with Decimal Points for [Package] Subparameters Michael Mirmak introduced BUG59 by stating that ibischk3 crashed on a Windows 2000 system only when a subparameter numerical entry was incorrectly entered (two decimal points for a C_pkg value). Michael also stated that Bob Ross could not reproduce the crash on a Windows NT system. Instead, Bob did observe that the error messages were different on Unix workstations. The NT (DOS mode) reported an extra PROGRAM BUG and also another related ERROR message, but it did not cause ibischk3 to crash or terminate prematurely. Lynne Green and John Angulo will try the BUG59 test case independently. BUG59 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN. More investigation will be done on it. We need to at least resolve the "PROGRAM BUG" report since that is a soft program failure message. Stephen Peters stated that someone besides Atul Agarwal may need to investigate this if Atul does not have access to the Windows NT system. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, August 31, 2001, from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ===============================================================================