DATE: 10/8/01 SUBJECT: October 5, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer John Figueroa Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek, Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang LSI Logic Larry Barnes Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino*, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly*, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad, Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim, Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet, Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*, Tim Wells* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith ASIS Ltd David Wright Brocade Communications Robert Badal BMW Friedrich Hasinger Cereva Networks Bob Haller Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam, Bill Ham EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet (Aerospatiale) EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines EIA Cecilia Fleming Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek Reliability and Integration Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Idaho State University Al Davis Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard Science (INSA) Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren, Janne Uusitalo North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres Sun Adrian Udenze Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 26, 2001 1-916-356-2663 3 0776283 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Tim Wells from Micron Technology is developing IBIS, EBD and Spice models and is interested in learning more about IBIS. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that Motorola and Siemens have rejoined and NEC has joined the IBIS Open Forum. This increases the voting membership to 34. Stephen reported that we are reviewing the budget for 2002. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The August 31, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Roy Leventhal updated the IBIS Models page as of September 6 and 12, 2001. Bob Ross noted that Syed Huq and Cecilia Fleming updated the Support link for the IBIS Model Review Committee, the Roster link and will update the Upcoming Events Link. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that IBIS models can be found by searching for IBIS under PLX Technology: http://www.plxtech.com Several IBIS models now exist for Galileo Technologies under: http://www.galileot.com/products/internetworking/catalog.html OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Milt Schwartz asked about the number of participants expected at the January IBIS summit meeting. This was covered under the agenda item "Other Summit Meeting Plans". INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Bob Ross reported that the IMIC Link now has the published standard ED-5302 of March 2001 under: http://tsc.jeita.or.jp/eds/IOPG.htm - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters reported that a link to ICEM documentation including a preliminary ICEM Cookbook now exists under http://intrage.insa-tlse.fr/~etienne/Emc/index.html Bob Ross and Stephen participated by teleconference in a meeting held in Paris on Thursday, October 4, 2001. The ICEM working group reported that they now have a committee draft for vote (CDV) ready to send to the IEC for international approval. Stephen and Bob offered to review the ICEM proposal and provide feedback on syntax and IBIS compatibility. We expect a presentation on the ICEM progress at the January IBIS Summit. Bob also reported that EMC material including a more recent version of the ICEM documentation exists under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/emc/ - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report. PCB CONFERENCE EAST 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK Stephen Peters requested feedback on the IBIS Summit Meeting on September 13, 2001 in Worcester, Massachusetts. Stephen noted that teleconferencing had its disadvantages including not being on site and subject to other meetings and interruptions. It is much better to be on-site and away from the office. Bob Ross stated that a number of presentations were successfully delivered by teleconference. However, he missed being on site with the rest of the group for more interaction. Everyone felt that the meeting did go well. Stephen asked, and Bob responded that all of the presentations including an Ad Hoc one by Arpad Muranyi are now uploaded under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/sep01/ OTHER SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara, California. We will an Associate Sponsor. A large meeting room and refreshments will be provided. We will also plan on a booth, and Guy de Burgh will be handling the arrangements. Innoveda will be providing the backdrop. Milt Schwartz is handling the local arrangements and National Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch. Initial notices about the meeting will be issued in early December 2001. Milt asked for a preliminary head count of who will attend. All the IBIS officers plan to attend. Milt expects about 40 people based on the current economy. Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France. So far, Mentor Graphics and Zuken are co-sponsors. More co-sponsors are requested. As before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI issues. Bob added that we might consider teleconference connections at these meetings because of the travel restriction uncertainty. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION John Angulo still has not had a response regarding someone chairing the IBIS Model Review Committee. Bob Ross reported no new models, and John also has no models left to review. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported that IBIS Users activated in September. The email archives are available under HTML formats with sorting through the following symbolic links: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive The actual archives are under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/email/ http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/users/ We are still working on cleaning up unnecessary soft links and on archiving some IBIS reflector e-mail. Actual text archives should be available under the above directories as email.archive and users.archive. The text versions preserve the original text white spaces that are lost under the HTML formats. John Angulo reported that he is still dealing with mail archive issues. IBIS reflector traffic is being archived into the HTML archives, but no traffic have been entered into the parallel .txt archive since September 11. John noted that the ibis-users reflector archive is OK, and that a permission problem with the IBIS reflector .txt archives was fixed. John plans a further follow-up with the machine administrators. John mentioned that the proper way to subscribe is by sending a message to majordomo@eda.org and include in the body the text "subscribe ibis" or "subscribe ibis-users". An e-mail address is optional, but would be added if it is different from the sending address. The ibis-request@eda.org still works, but may be phased out in the future. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held September 4, then again on Monday September 17 and Oct 1. There was no meeting on Sept. 24. The committee has almost completed its initial review of the connector specification, and a proposal has been put forth regarding supporting both RLGC and S-parameter matrixes. Stephen stated that the committee is still on track to release the .icm specification for IBIS Open Forum review in the first quarter of 2002. IBIS FUTURES REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on Sept 6, 20, 27, and Oct 4. The committee has been focused on creating the IBIS-ML language reference manual (LRM), and an updated draft version of the LRM was issued Wednesday. The committee is currently reviewing the syntax rules and guidelines chapter as well as simulation primitives. Stephen also reported that Al Davis has withdrawn from the IBIS Futures committee. While the committee will miss his input, the spec is still on schedule to be ready for general review by the IBIS Open Forum at the end of January 2002. BIRD72.1 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS//PMOS SERIES FET MODELS Tom Dagostio stated that there were just editorial changes. The intent of BIRD72.1 is to document that [Series MOSFET] devices for switches do consist of NMOS and also NMOS in parallel with PMOS devices. There may also be PMOS only devices. The writeup needs to be changed so that is not NMOS specific. Furthermore the PMOS in parallel with NMOS devices have non-monotonic I-V tables, so the related ibischk parser needs to have the warning messages changed. Bob Ross added that some of the text had been cleaned up. Also a sample I-V table for a real device is added. It show some of the non-monotonic behavior that Tom described. Stephen Peters did not understand the new equation in the document. Tom stated that both the PMOS and NMOS currents needed to be added. Bob noted that the terms Idsp and Idsn were not defined. Also there still exists some references to Vgs which need to be changed to Vtable since the discussion also apples to NMOS in parallel with PMOS devices (with two gates). AR - Tom Dagostino issue BIRD72.2 with further editorial changes by October 12, 2001 so that it can be considered for a vote at the next IBIS meeting. BIRD73.1 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL Bob Ross discussed revisions in the recently issued BIRD73.1. Bob spoke first about the suggested changes to the Bus_hold portion. Based on the August 31, 2001 meeting comments, the corrupted Bus_hold examples were restored. The Off_delay entries in the example were changed to be in alignment with the text. In particular, the Off_delay subparameter has typ/min/max table entries by value since there is no process/temperature/ voltage correlation to changes. Finally the suggested state table showing initial conditions and transitions was entered. Bob discussed the new state table. He noted that in the original bus_hold writeup the initial submodel state of low or high is based on Vdie voltage values with respect to V_trigger_r and V_trigger_f. This left an ambiguous gap if the Vdie value fell in between these values due to, for example, a Thevenin terminator. So Bob made the initial submodel state to be set to the state of the driver in the net being analyzed. This is usually consistent with the original writeup, but also gives a known simulator setting in the case where the Vdie voltage makes the submodel state unknown. Bob also noted that one application would use Off_delay and only a [Pullup] up table for a temporary rising edge "kicker" or Off_delay and only a temporary [Pulldown] "kicker". A different initial state method is documented. The submodel always is initialized in the "off" or High-Z state. A [Pullup] would be initialize low, and a [Pulldown] would be initialized high. BIRD73.1 is incorrect, and this needs to be fixed in BIRD73.2. A normal application might include switchable terminations (stronger than just bus hold circuits). Usually two separate submodels would be constructed so that each is initialized in the High-Z state for overall bus low and high states. Lynne Green asked if the multiple output stages that switch on and off can be modeled. Bob responded with yes by using more submodels. Bob stated that the Fall_back submodel changes had just a few editorial changes for clarity. The submodel is initialized in the same state as the driver in the net. This needs to be clarified. Bob will make more editorial corrections and possibly review the technical writeup further. AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD73.2 with editorial changes and with the Driver restriction for further review and discussion. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal has nearly completed the works for fixing BUGs 48 - 56. He may not fix BUG55, but possibly fix BUG59. Bob stated that Matthew Flora has a fix to BUG55 and also possibly BUG59. We expect the ibischk3.2.8 to be available in October 2001. Bob described that the executables need to be generated and uploaded and the source code needs to be distributed to the companies that have source code licenses. Lynne Green volunteered to produce a Linux executable. Bob suggested that one also be produced for ibischk3.2.7. XML FOR IBIS Bob Ross introduced some work by Atul Agarwal regarding XML coding of IBIS. This work will be uploaded in the future under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/xml/ Bob is waiting for a generic IBIS model example that can be uploaded with the other material. The material will contain a work in progress syntactical description of IBIS called ibis.dtd. An ibis.html file will show the IBIS structure graphically. Bob noted that the work differs from what Mike LaBonte presented at the June 8, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting. Atul's format stores all min/typ/max data are all in the same data base, whereas Mike's proposal had them separated. Comments will be requested when the information is uploaded. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, October 27, 2001 from 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time. BIRD72.2 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================