DATE: 10/30/01 SUBJECT: October 26, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal* Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer John Figueroa Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek, Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad, Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim, Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet, Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd Micron Technology Randy Wolff, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith ASIS Ltd David Wright Brocade Communications Robert Badal BMW Friedrich Hasinger Cereva Networks Bob Haller Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam, Bill Ham EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet (Aerospatiale) EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines EIA Cecilia Fleming Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek Reliability and Integration Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Idaho State University Al Davis Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard Science (INSA) Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren, Janne Uusitalo North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres Sun Adrian Udenze Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode November 16, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 8906706 1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In) December 7, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 6467862 1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Cox joined from Micron Technology. He is involved designing module products related to DDR33 memory modules and is attending in place of the regular Micron representatives. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that our membership stands at 34, unchanged from last month. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The October 5, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this change: Milt Swartz spelling was corrected to Milt Schwartz under Opens for New Issues. The corrected minutes have been uploaded. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq updated the Upcoming Events link of the IBIS Home page. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal reported that he intends to review and update any broken links on the IBIS Models page in the next few weeks. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Stephen Peters reported that we will meet with the JEITA people including Atsuji Itoh of Panasonic during the IBIS Summit Meeting in January 2002 at DesignCon regarding IBIS-X plans. - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - No Report. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported that the SCSI specification technical report has passed the ballot, and the committee has responded to comments. The responses will be reviewed before the document is officially published. The committee expects to move forward to making the technical report an official technical standard. An updated document should be available next week under: http://www.t10.org/ OTHER SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS - DesignCon2002 Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara, California. We will an Associate Sponsor. A large meeting room and refreshments will be provided. We will also plan on a booth, and Guy de Burgh will be handling the arrangements. Innoveda will be providing the backdrop. Milt Schwartz is handling the local arrangements and National Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch. Initial notices about the meeting will be issued in early December 2001. - Date2002 Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France. So far, Mentor Graphics and Zuken are co-sponsors. More co-sponsors are requested. As before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI issues. - JEDEC 2002 Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS committee has been invited to attend the 2002 JEDEC JC-16 and JC-43 meetings in Vancouver, British Columbia. This would be a joint session between IBIS and JEDEC. Stephen noted that the JC-16 under DC Sessions has previously been involved in IBIS committee activities, suggesting a series of input specification enhancements that resulted in BIRD 62. The joint meeting represents an opportunity for further collaboration. However, the JEDEC sessions will occur during the annual IBIS East summit in September 2002, making a joint meeting difficult. Bob Ross suggested that perhaps the two meetings could be coordinated via teleconference. This and other ideas were discussed further. The people on the West Coast would probably want to attend the Vancouver meeting. Several people may be attending PCB East on business, so holding an East Coast meeting still makes sense. The IBIS Committee does not need to decide on this. However, EIA and Cecilia Fleming are making the early plans, arrangements and commitments and would like to know whether the IBIS Committee will participate. At this time it appears that we would participate in the Vancouver meeting and will try to creatively consider holding the East Coast meeting at the same time. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported no new models. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported that much work has been done. Text archiving of ibis@eda.org reflector messages still appears to be broken. All other archiving appears to be working. John will continue working with the system administrators on the problem. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on October 9 and 16, 2001. The next one is scheduled on October 30, 2001. Review of chapter 7 has been completed, with the major remaining item of discussion having to do with incorporation of s-parameter matrices into the specification. Although more editing work needs to be done, we are still on track for release of the specification in the first quarter of 2002. IBIS FUTURES REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held October 11, 18, and 25, 2001. The next one is scheduled on November 1, 2001. Chapters 1 through 5 have been reviewed, with chapter 6 scheduled next. The committee hopes to begin reviewing the implementation of IBIS ver 3.2 in IBIS-ML (Macro Language) during the month of November. BIRD72.2 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS//PMOS SERIES FET MODELS Bob Ross introduced BIRD72.2, originally issued by Tom Dagostino. Bob discussed that some more cleanup was done, particularly replacing Vgs with Vtable. This was to deal with the fact that both PMOS and NMOS devices could be used, and Vgs was now ambiguous. Bob reviewed the contents of the document and pointed out that the new example that showed expected non-monotonic I-V table behavior for a PMOS//NMOS switch. Bob suggested one minor editorial change on the revised diagram, replacing a transistor dashed line with a solid line. This would be documented as BIRD72.3. Lynne Green questioned the statement that the [Power Clamp Reference] would take priority over [Voltage Range]. Bob responded that this was consistent with how the new references were handled when they were introduced in IBIS Version 2.1. Furthermore, the [Power Clamp Reference] was retained as the reference voltage for both PMOS and NMOS devices. Stephen asked for a vote on BIRD72.2 with the modification above. BIRD72.2 was unanimously approved as revised. Bob will issue the revised BIRD72.3. BIRD73.2 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL Bob Ross issued BIRD73.2 with some substantial changes and simplifications of the functionality. Bob covered the changes in a lengthy discussion. The changes were broken down into clarifications and corrections to the bus hold submodel, and changes to the fall back submodel. The bus hold submodel starts at one state, but then is triggered to the other state when a voltage passes a trigger value in a manner that adds to or makes the transition stronger. Bob corrected some examples. He noted that one example was documented for a pullup bus hold model, but actually had a pulldown table. So he revised the related comments to correspond to the actual example. In other cases he entered the Off_delay values by magnitude since there is no process dependency. One discussion centered around an added recommendation regarding selecting the bus hold initial state. Bob commented that there are cases where the initial state criteria documented in Version 3.2 could not be satisfied or were both satisfied. These cases can be created normally under unusual situations beyond the expected operation. In BIRD73.1 Bob proposed using the driver state (low or high) as the basis. However, he found that some tools may have difficulty in determining this. Instead, he proposed a strategy of choosing the state based on evaluating the voltage at the die. Stephen Peters commented that the sentence "Different types of EDA tools might approach this differently" needed to be clarified. Bob stated that this might be removed. The problem was that the method of finding the initial state would technically require testing the net with the bus hold at each of the states before determining the correct state. Some tools might just ignore the bus hold to find the voltage level. Bob suggested that for some cases more than one cycle might be needed to reach the stable situation. Bob will rework this area. Another discussion centered around the added tables showing the state logic. Stephen suggested that "low" and "high" be defined in terms of the pullup and pulldown tables being on and off. For example, a pulldown table is at the "low" state when conducting, and the "high" state when it is turned off and not conducting. The opposite applies for the pullup table. Bob will add text to clarify this. Bob also explained the tables. The bus hold with Off_delay is a special case that is designed to provide a temporary boost during one of the half cycles and do nothing for the other half. It is somewhat similar to the [Driver Schedule] boost operation except that Bus hold is action is initiated by a trigger voltage (instead of a delayed time) and then turned off after the Off_delay time. Because the operation is designed to provide only a one-half cycle boost, only a single [Pullup] or [Pulldown] table is required. This allows the "off" state to be defined. Furthermore, the initial state is set to the "off" mode. Another table shows this for the cases where the submodel has only a pulldown or a pullup table. The additional fall back section was discussed. Bob stated that the fall back submodel might be considered to have opposite action as the bus hold model with Off_delay. The buffer in the Driving mode might be given extra strength at the beginning, but the extra buffer operation is turned off when the die voltage passes through a trigger threshold so that the final impedance of the buffer might match better the transmission line impedance for better signal quality. Bob had tried to write the fall back submodel in the most general terms. However, he decided to put in the following limits: It operate in Driving mode only, it would consist of only a [Pullup] or [Pulldown] table, and it would be initialized in a manner similar to the bus hold Off_delay submodel. The Driving model restriction comes from the fact that fall back submodel is expected to transition from an off to an on state and then back off during a one-half cycle, similar to bus hold Off_delay model. It should stay in a high-Z state during the other one-half cycle. The fall back is turned on when the driver is turned on. This can only be detected if the submodel is connected to a driver. This discussion addressed Stephen's question regarding the driving model of operation. Bob stated that an I/O or 3-state buffer can have a Driving mode. Only Input and Terminator buffers would have no operation. Bob preferred a Warning message if a fall back submodel were called by an Input or Terminator model documenting that the submodel will be inactive. The fact that only a [Pulldown] or [Pullup] table is permitted is based on the need that the buffer needs a high-Z state in practice. It needs to be turned on and then off. Also, the initialization needs to be in the state so that it goes through the off-to-on-to-off transition during one-half cycle and remains "off" and in operative in the other one-half cycle. Greg Edlund asked how we would model both pullup and pulldown fall back buffers. Bob commented that BIRD73.2 states and documents that two separate submodels are used, one for the pullup and one for the pulldown. This is how we can achieve a high state boost and a low state boost and also start and end with a high-Z mode - similar to bus hold with Off_delay. Bob concluded that he will issue BIRD73.3 with the suggested changes. Since this was a complex addition, more discussion will be scheduled at the next meeting. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that Lynne Green provided an ibischk3.2.7 executable for Linux. This has been uploaded. Also Atul Agarwal plans to deliver the ibischk3.2.8 parser to Matthew Flora soon. It will fix BUGs 48-56, except for BUG55. Matthew will fix BUG55 and also possible BUG59 before releasing. We will then distribute the source code to the people licensing the parser and also generate executables to upload. - BUG61 - Parser Fails to Flag Missing [Series Switch Groups] Table Bob Ross introduced BUG61 issued by Jim Bell. It reports a problem that is missed by ibischk3. When a Series Switch is modeled, and it contains a function_table_group entry, there needs to be a [Series Switch Groups] keyword to document how the table states are set. This error needs to be reported. BUG61 was classified as Moderate, Medium, and Open. - BUG62 - Not All Non-Monotonic Points Reported Bob Ross introduced BUG62, reported by Tracy Sopchak and issued through Lynne Green. It dealt with the fact that not all non-monotonic points in a table are reported. The problem is that when one point is fixed, another gets reported. Lynne suggested that a count of points might be reported. Stephen Peters commented that the user needs to know where the non-monotonic points are located. Larry Barnes indicated that noisy tables make multiple non-monotonic points a common problem. Milt Schwartz commented that the displays tables in spread sheets and graphs is any non-monotonic point is reported. We ran out of time before deciding on how to resolve this. Stephen will put it on the agenda for discussion at the next meeting. At this time, BUG62 is classified as Low, Annoying, and Open XML FOR IBIS Bob Ross has sent Atul Agarwal some sanitized models to use as examples. Bob still expects to upload the XML material for review when he receives the XML translations. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, November 16, 2001 from 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================